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<font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Hello Walt<br>
<br>
Just read your RANT on OsGeo<br>
<br>
Seems you may be changing your allegiance - to ESRI and all that
;-) <br>
<br>
On a serious note the debate around the use of OSS has been doing
the rounds in Gov now for longer than I care to remember. Nothing
yet seems to have come of it, the reasons may be many and the will
seems to be non existent, but one of the major stumbling blocks
has been identified by yourself and the previous writer. </font><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif">This is not just about GIS though that is the
primary focus of this</font> forum. The whole debate is much
broader and I think needs to have the profile raised.<br>
</font><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><br>
It is really sad when a person considers themselves "computer
literate" when they can use Word & Excel and then not even do
Styles or formula's more complex than simple addition - they use
them as a glorified typewriter. It is a fact t</font><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">hat our educational
institutions are doing a very poor job of skilling students to
really be computer literate. This has come about mostly due to the
penetration and exclusive use of a proprietary vendors solution,
which was given to educational institutions for free (Catch them
young and they are yours forever principle). I fail to understand
why it is accepted that a single vendors solutions should be
considered as the only contribution to a school/university
curriculum. The education authorities carry equal blame in this
regard<br>
<br>
Your "low blow" about IT support in Gov :-(<br>
<br>
I like to think that at the institution where I am employed there
is a least a semblance of support. Suppose there has to be since
OSS has been almost exclusively implemented in the server space,
and what do you know "it works" and works well. <br>
<br>
Free State...??? Maybe the reporter did not know the scope of the
work, but neither did the department that wanted the solution. How
many man hours can you buy for 40 Million? A hellava Lot!! Way
more than the scope of work done so far.<br>
<br>
And finally ...........DATA......... I would almost term this the
Holy Grail of computing. Proprietary vendors, service providers
etc are doing a really really good job of capturing data and then
making it unavailable to the client. I have seen more than my fair
share of projects that at the end the service provider walks away
with the IP in the form of the data. I know that this is almost
always the fault of the project managers, but am afraid that it
all links back to the above re training and skills and knowledge
about how to manage the data component.<br>
<br>
YOU ARE SO RIGHT<br>
<br>
Llewellyn<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</font>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 05/06/2013 12:19, Walter Smit wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Hi
Ray<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
have been physically deployed in a national government
department (DRDLR) for the past 18months and many of your
points are very true. I could write a whole essay about it,
but here are some quick points.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Training
and inexperienced staff – I have had to teach graduated GIS
people (from various universities) what the difference is
between files and folders. Seems to me that many
universities are missing the plot completely on how to make
young people ready for actual work.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">“not
programmers” – true, but the FOSS software I have used does
not require any more programming than over-the-counter
suites.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Enough
PGPs? Correct, there are very few. It is however a fallacy
that you need to be mentored by a PGP to be able to register
with Plato (I was not – and I didn’t get the benefit of the
Grandfather clause either). I don’t know who started this
lie, but it seems to stop people from even trying to
register.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
cannot comment on unscrupulous service providers – solutions
should be scalable.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Freestate
in the limelight – I actually asked someone with more
knowledge than the reporters. He was of the opinion that the
service provider under quoted, because the range and scope
of related services to that website was enormous. Like
following several officials around to all their meetings for
a year. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Why
pay more than once? Petty politics and leaders protecting
their own little empires. And corruption of course. We have
tried doing this for 18months…no luck yet. Also the
communication between provinces and levels of government is
ludicrously poor. Do you know what your direct neighbours in
Environmental Affairs are using? Hopefully Enrico and
Nacelle will be uploading their Bioregional Plans to the
sharing platform when they are done. The same platform where
you can see the EIAs from NEIMS…*shameless plug*<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Data
with known custodians. Have been doing this for 12months…it
is very very difficult. Reasons: lack of high level regard
for (spatial) data, capacity and attitudes of “it isn’t in
my job description”. Hopefully more OSD posts will change
this. Remember that very few departments have ever taken
responsibility for spatial data – ever. It is a massively
foreign concept to them. We are making good progress on this
in 2 provinces. In the Northern Cape we have actually got
all the HODs to sign MOUs that they will be custodians for
their datasets. Appointing the actual person/post to an
actual dataset is more of a challenge. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">GIS
people in government. Lack of funding usually, or no GIS
posts on their organograms. Government salaries for GIS
people are actually much higher than private sector.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">IT
support in government. Cannot comment on something that
doesn’t exist </span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D">J</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Personally
I believe that departments would be better served by
implementing FOSS and spending the saved money on training.
Because training (regardless of software used) is what
people really need. But then again…Tswane…why change a
system if it is already working for them? And their staff
have probably already had some decent training.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Rant
over,</span><br>
</p>
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</blockquote>
<br>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
Llewellyn Gush<br>
Information Technology Manager<br>
Joe Gqabi District Municipality<br>
<br>
<br>
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