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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">My apology for a late response for your invitation to attend as guest to the training workshop.
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Unfortunately due to an extremely tight schedule with departure to German in the afternoon, I will not be able to attend.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Thanks again for the invitation</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt"><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Ivan Farayi Muzondo</span></i></p>
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</span><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:18.0pt; font-family:Webdings; color:green">P
</span></b><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:7.5pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:green">Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail or any other document</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"; color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"; color:windowtext">
 africa-bounces@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:africa-bounces@lists.osgeo.org] <b>On Behalf Of
</b>Aslam Parker<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 27 August 2013 12:47 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> africa@lists.osgeo.org; newmarch@land-surveyors.com<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [OSGeo Africa] Using south-orientated CRSs for GIS in South Africa</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"">Hi All</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"">Can we please not call it the Lo system, it is the South African Coordinate Reference System. For a detailed and authoratative
 definition and explanation, please download </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif""><a href="http://www.eepublishers.co.za/images/upload/positionit_2012/SA%20Coordinate%20reference%20system%20part1+2.pdf">http://www.eepublishers.co.za/images/upload/positionit_2012/SA%20Coordinate%20reference%20system%20part1+2.pdf</a></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"">Apparently ESRI has recently  implemented the south oriented SACRS in their software.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:7.5pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Aslam Parker | Director: Geo-spatial Information and Professional Support</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:7.5pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">|Chief Directorate: National Geo-spatial Information
</span><a href="http://www.ngi.gov.za/"><span style="font-size:7.5pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">www.ngi.gov.za</span></a><span style="font-size:7.5pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">|</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#EC7600"> </span><span style="font-size:7.5pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Cape
 Town|</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:7.5pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#EC7600">Tel</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> +27 21 658 4302|</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#EC7600">
 Fax </span><span style="font-size:7.5pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">+27 86 211 7919|
</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#EC7600">Mobile</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> 082 331 8501|
</span><a href="mailto:aparker@ruraldevelopment.gov.za"><span style="font-size:7.5pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">aparker@ruraldevelopment.gov.za</span></a><u><span style="font-size:7.5pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#EC7600">
</span></u></p>
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<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:16.0pt; line-height:115%; font-family:Webdings; color:green">P</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:16.0pt; line-height:115%; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:green">
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt; line-height:115%; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:green">Please consider the environment before printing this email and/or any related attachments</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"">>>> Peter Newmarch <<a href="mailto:newmarch@land-surveyors.com">newmarch@land-surveyors.com</a>> 8/27/2013 11:42 AM >>></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">If one is producing maps in a country, then its common practice to use the national mapping system of that country. So I guess NGI does have a policy in the sense
 that their is a national mapping system for all data - which is the current Lo system.<br>
<br>
Peter<br>
<br>
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<pre>Peter Newmarch</pre>
<pre>Professional Land Surveyor</pre>
<pre>4Y GeoInformatics Pty Ltd</pre>
<pre>Tel       : +27 31 5642856</pre>
<pre>Fax       : +27 31 5643074</pre>
<pre>Mobile    : +27 82 5705859</pre>
<pre>eMail     : <a href="mailto:newmarch@land-surveyors.com">newmarch@land-surveyors.com</a> </pre>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"">On 2013/08/27 11:18 AM, Frank Sokolic wrote:</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"">ArcGIS 10+ and the soon-to-be-released QGIS 2.0 contain the (correct) south-orientated definitions of the Lo coordinate reference
 systems. However, the problem with this is that there is a HUGE amount of spatial data in SA and neighbouring countries that use a "north-facing" orientation. To convert all of this to the south-orientated system will have a massive impact on the GIS community
 both in terms of money and time. Can we afford this? <br>
<br>
Does National Geo-spatial Information (NGI) have a policy on which CRS to use for GIS? They also supply spatial data using "north-orientated" coordinates so perhaps they have a policy somewhere that states:
<br>
- use south-orientated coordinates for survey data <br>
- use north-orientated coordinates for GIS data? <br>
<br>
Frank. <br>
<br>
On 26/08/2013 22:03, Gavin Fleming wrote: <br>
<br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"">Very topical point Frank
<br>
<br>
Now that EPSG and proj4 have codes and implementations for the <br>
south-facing LO/Hartebeesthoek94 system, it's all well and good except <br>
as you say most GIS practitioners use north-facing, which we should not <br>
call 'LO' at all. I wish EPSG had set up the north facing series instead. <br>
<br>
If you get coordinates from a surveyor they are likely to be <br>
south-facing, otherwise not, probably because GIS has not been able to <br>
handle south-facing till recently? <br>
<br>
In my early GIS days if we got south-facing data, we'd flip it to <br>
north-facing manually before continuing. <br>
<br>
There's a bit of a blocker in QGIS 1.9 at the moment where, if you <br>
define a north-facing LO CRS (which I prefer to call something like <br>
'SouthAfricaTM19' instead of 'LO19'), it forces '+axis=wsu' into the <br>
definition, which makes it south-facing. I've filed a bug report [1] <br>
about this, hoping it gets fixed before 2.0 is released. <br>
<br>
I'm working in Lesotho now on parcel data which is in north facing TM <br>
(on the Cape datum still), though survey data comes in south-facing. The <br>
LO/Cape datum series is also in EPSG now, but also only as south-facing <br>
:-(. <br>
<br>
[1] <a href="http://hub.qgis.org/issues/8487">http://hub.qgis.org/issues/8487</a>
<br>
<br>
Gavin <br>
<br>
On 26/08/2013 17:08, Frank Sokolic wrote: <br>
<br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"">Dear List,
<br>
<br>
As many of you know, the South African coordinate reference system is <br>
defined as a south-orientated system, with Westings (Y) increasing <br>
towards the south and Southings (X) increasing towards the West. <br>
However, in a GIS context I've only ever seen SA CRSs (e.g. Lo19, <br>
Lo31, etc) represented with x-coordinates increasing eastwards and <br>
y-coordinates increasing northwards. <br>
<br>
So, for example, the coordinates of the entrance to Durban harbour are <br>
represented in Hartebeesthoek94/Lo31 as <br>
Y = -5641.000 <br>
X = +3305647.886 <br>
but in practice in a GIS this point is represented as <br>
X = +5641.000 <br>
Y = -3305647.886 <br>
<br>
My question is: are there any GIS practitioners in South Africa who <br>
use the SA CRSs in the south-orientated sense? <br>
<br>
Regards, Frank. <br>
<br>
<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"">=== Email Disclaimer =================================================== “The information contained in this email is confidential
 and may contain proprietary information. It is meant solely for the intended recipient. Access to this email by anyone else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted in reliance
 on this, is prohibited and may be unlawful. No liability or responsibility is accepted if information or data is, for whatever reason corrupted or does not reach its intended recipient. No warranty is given that this email is free of viruses. The views expressed
 in this email are, unless otherwise stated, those of the author not those of Department of Rural Development and Land Reform or its management. Department of Rural Development and Land Reform reserves the right to monitor, intercept and block email addresses
 to its users or take any action in accordance with its email use policy”. ====================================================================
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Tshwane University of Technology<br>
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This email is sent and received in terms of the Electronic<br>
Communications Policy of Tshwane University of Technology.<br>
In line with this policy, this email is private, privileged and<br>
confidential. The full text of the Electronic Mail Disclaimer<br>
can be seen on the TUT web site at<br>
http://www.tut.ac.za/Other/disclaimer/Pages/default.aspx<br>
or obtained by phoning (012) 382-5911<br>
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