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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-ZA link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Hi Peter<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Replacement of beacons is a small part of our fee. Te diagram with co-ordinates allows for some sort of official looking document that carries weight.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Altus<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US> Africa [mailto:africa-bounces@lists.osgeo.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Peter Newmarch<br><b>Sent:</b> 24 January 2018 02:03 PM<br><b>To:</b> 'Africa local chapter discussions' <africa@lists.osgeo.org><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [OSGeo Africa] CRS in use in South Africa<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Lance,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Indeed – I am just looking for pros and cons etc… of course a big con is that people are replacing beacons in isolation based on the coordinate value they get off the diagram. Even entire properties are simply replaced on coordinate and this is creating a many problems and increased costs to property owners. Of course its illegally done, but its like writing your credit card number, security code and pin all on one document and advertising it – and hoping that nobody will do illegal things with it. Publishing the coordinate is being used for illegal things.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Peter Newmarch<o:p></o:p></span></b></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US> Lance Nel [mailto:lance@tgis.co.za] <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 24, 2018 1:49 PM<br><b>To:</b> newmarch@land-surveyors.com; Africa local chapter discussions <africa@lists.osgeo.org><br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [OSGeo Africa] CRS in use in South Africa<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>A diagram is internally consistent<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>A consolidated GIS will have polygons that are not necessarily consistent with its component diagrams in shape, orientation, scale or position.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>I think the SG could always have plotted form the SR, therefore diagram ccordinates did not serve just that purpose.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>We need both. The storage point is perhaps not that critical – but reliable and easy access is.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>The SG however does not have the capacity to create a reliable consistent, constantly improving combined data set.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>There are numerous philosophical challenges in consolidating historic and current data, so it would be great to have it, - but only if it’s “Right” and understood.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>A shift or changing control points is easily accommodated when cords are on the diagram – without having to puzzle through and select from a SR to understand the impact.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>These are just random considerations relating to your interesting thought – not a thought through argument for or against.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Lance<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US> Africa [<a href="mailto:africa-bounces@lists.osgeo.org">mailto:africa-bounces@lists.osgeo.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Peter Newmarch<br><b>Sent:</b> 2018/01/24 01:20 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:africa@lists.osgeo.org">africa@lists.osgeo.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [OSGeo Africa] CRS in use in South Africa<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>I follow, but the same is achievable by capturing the data (bearing and distance), and positioning such in relation to the abutting properties that presumably already exist on the system. Coordinates just create slivers on the edges as the odds are the new diagram differs from the adjoining diagram coordinates. Just the other day I differed by 1,5m with somebody else – nothing wrong with the surveys, we just used different coordinates. Capturing the coordinates does not actually mean that is where the property actually is. One would think that the capture of the relationships of properties would be more valuable so that as coordinates change the data is still valid.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Peter Newmarch<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US> Lebogang Modiba [<a href="mailto:inah.modiba@gmail.com">mailto:inah.modiba@gmail.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 24, 2018 1:11 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:newmarch@land-surveyors.com">newmarch@land-surveyors.com</a>; <a href="mailto:africa@lists.osgeo.org">africa@lists.osgeo.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [OSGeo Africa] CRS in use in South Africa<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Hi Peter <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>I understand that CSG is the only custodian for cadastral data but at times due to backlog their data is not updated and that puts a lot of pressure on us using the data and in meeting our deadlines.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>We do report the missing data to their offices but at times it takes too long for them to update.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Thanks <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Ms Lebogang<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>On 24 Jan 2018 13:05, "Peter Newmarch" <<a href="mailto:newmarch@land-surveyors.com">newmarch@land-surveyors.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US>Lebogang,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US>This is just a thought – but surely under the SDI act, the SGO is the Base data custodian – I know there are problems with data, but if people are calculating it themselves – how does one ever expect to have the “base data” corrected. Is it not easier to force a situation where all data comes from one source, all missing data goes through one source, and all changes in data goes through one source. ??<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Peter Newmarch</span></b><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span lang=EN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US> Lebogang Modiba [mailto:<a href="mailto:inah.modiba@gmail.com" target="_blank">inah.modiba@gmail.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 24, 2018 1:01 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:newmarch@land-surveyors.com" target="_blank">newmarch@land-surveyors.com</a>; <a href="mailto:africa@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">africa@lists.osgeo.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [OSGeo Africa] CRS in use in South Africa<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US>Hi Peter<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US>The coordinates on the sg diagrams and general plans helps us alot especially in cases where the CSG spatial data recived from CSG offices are incomplete or somwtimes incorrect.We use those coordinates to update and validate the cadastral data.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US>There are times where you find that the whole township is missing from CSG spatial data and you require to work on that township urgently therefore waiting for CSG officials tonot update it for u not being an option.We use those coordinates to plot that whole township ourselves either using auto cad or ArcGIS.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US>I would request that there be education in helping GIS personnels in converting those coordinates into decimal degress rather removing them.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US>Kind regards<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US>Ms Lebogang Modiba<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US>On 24 Jan 2018 12:50, "Peter Newmarch" <<a href="mailto:newmarch@land-surveyors.com" target="_blank">newmarch@land-surveyors.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US>Dear all,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US>I am interested in peoples thoughts on the Coordinates on diagrams and general plans. For surveyors its simply duplicated work and plays no part in the registration of the diagram or general plan. From what I can see it was needed in an era of time to assist in plotting things by hand on paper. Land Surveyors don’t use coordinates in reconstructing properties and replacing beacons so they really serve no purpose on the diagram or general plan. The information is still in the survey records as a separate coordinate list so the SG can plot the property appropriately.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US>What are peoples thoughts about removing them and relying only on the SGO spatial data for such ?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US>Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Peter Newmarch</span></b><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><pre><span lang=EN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></pre></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US><br>_______________________________________________<br>Africa mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Africa@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">Africa@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>You can UNSUBSCRIBE at <a href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/africa" target="_blank">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/africa</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><br>_______________________________________________<br>Africa mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Africa@lists.osgeo.org">Africa@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>You can UNSUBSCRIBE at <a href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/africa" target="_blank">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/africa</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></div></div><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 width=0 style='width:337.5pt'><tr><td width=2 style='width:18.75pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 1.5pt'></td><td width=677 style='width:184.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 1.5pt'></td><td style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 1.5pt'></td><td style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 1.5pt'></td></tr><tr><td width=2 style='width:18.75pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 1.5pt'></td><td width=677 style='width:184.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 1.5pt'></td><td style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 1.5pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:13.5pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></td><td style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 1.5pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:13.5pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr><tr><td width=2 valign=top style='width:18.75pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 1.5pt'></td><td width=677 valign=top style='width:184.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 1.5pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:13.5pt'><strong><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Lance Nel </span></strong><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><br><span class=brightblue1>General Manager </span><br> <o:p></o:p></span></p></td><td style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 1.5pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:13.5pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></td><td valign=top style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 1.5pt'></td></tr><tr><td width=2 valign=top style='width:18.75pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 1.5pt'></td><td colspan=3 valign=top style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 1.5pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:13.5pt'><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Total Geo-spatial Information Solutions<br>PO Box 74388 Lynnwood Ridge<br>Pretoria<br>0040 </span></b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0><tr><td style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 1.5pt;padding-left=0px'><p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:13.5pt'><strong><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Tel :</span></strong><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'> +27 12 991 3624 <o:p></o:p></span></p></td><td style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 1.5pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:13.5pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></td><td style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 1.5pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:13.5pt'><strong><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Fax :</span></strong><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'> +27 12 991 6998 <o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr><tr><td style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 1.5pt;padding-left=0px'></td><td style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 1.5pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:13.5pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></td><td style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 1.5pt'></td></tr></table><p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:13.5pt'><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>E-mail:</span></b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'> <a href="mailto:Lance@tgis.co.za">Lance@tgis.co.za</a> <br><b>Web:</b> <a href="www.tgis.co.za">www.tgis.co.za</a> <br> <a href="https://www.facebook.com/pages/TGIS/702527303143505"><span style='border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm;text-decoration:none'><img border=0 width=30 height=30 id="_x0000_i1025" src="cid:image001.jpg@01D39533.0FA8FC80" alt="Image removed by sender."></span></a><a href="https://twitter.com/tgis77"><span style='border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm;text-decoration:none'><img border=0 width=30 height=30 id="_x0000_i1026" src="cid:image001.jpg@01D39533.0FA8FC80" alt="Image removed by sender."></span></a><br><span style='border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'><img border=0 width=720 height=120 id="_x0000_i1027" src="cid:image002.jpg@01D39533.0FA8FC80" alt="Image removed by sender."></span><o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr><tr><td style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'></td><td style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'></td><td style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'></td><td style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'></td></tr></table><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></body></html>