<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div dir="auto" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">To continue this thread, here is another tender that should be cancelled forthwith: <div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Gert Sibande District Municipality TENDER NO GSDM: 72/2018 GEOGRAPHIC INFORMATION SYSTEM (GIS): SOFTWARE LICENSING AND SUPPORT FOR A PERIOD OF THIRTY SIX (36) MONTHS [1]<br class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><a href="https://gs.arimur.co.za/index.php?option=com_zoo&task=item&item_id=5431&category_id=58&Itemid=287" class="">https://gs.arimur.co.za/index.php?option=com_zoo&task=item&item_id=5431&category_id=58&Itemid=287</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Flaws include:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">- This purports to be a tender but is no more than a regurgitated ESRI quotation without prices.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">- Govt entities are not allowed to request specific software but have to request a solution and preferably go for an open source offering</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">- There is no functional requirement (so they’re just buying it, it doesn’t have to do anything): “This tender will not be subjected to functionality evaluation”</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">- Their ‘bill of quantities’ for ESRI software is complete overkill. They don’t have the staff to expertise to use even half of those licences.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">- how is this competitive when there’s only one company that can respond?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">- “Tenderers must have the necessary skills, experience and capacity to perform the required work”. What work is there in selling licences?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">- Their previous ESRI ELA has actually ended and this is a thinly veiled attempt at renewing it, which is not allowed, yet they state “The Gert Sibande District Municipality (GSDM) is in a process of maintaining the existing Service Level Agreement (SLA-ELA) with regard to licensing and maintenance of its GIS, which is established on the Arc Suite of products”. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">- Gert Sibande DM has already spent millions of Rands on ESRI software and now are being duped into spending more and becoming more locked into one vendor. I guess the free conference trips are an appealing sweetener. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">- In the current state of the economy with austerity measures in place this smacks of wasteful if not reckless expenditure.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">- It’s not published on the central Govt tender portal (<a href="http://www.etenders.gov.za/content/advertised-tenders" class="">http://www.etenders.gov.za/content/advertised-tenders</a>) where all Govt tenders are supposed to be published. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">- Since there are no services requested in the ’tender’ other than “support”, they should be saving themselves the trouble and expense of procuring software and instead install all open source themselves and rather put out a tender just for support services.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Please share other examples (there must be hundreds) and let’s get a grassroots movement going to change the status quo. We need a level playing field and Govt must speed up implementation of the 2007 open source policy. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Every time you see a tender like this, push back to get it withdrawn and re-issued under fair and legal terms.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Anyone want to help tackle this one or are we going to just let this abuse of public funds continue?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Gavin</div><div class=""><br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 03 Aug 2018, at 21:29, Kashmira <<a href="mailto:kashmirab@gmail.com" class="">kashmirab@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="auto" class="">Thanks<div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">However we should also get assurance from SITA to not prescribe ESRI but rather allow the choices of software to be more transparent that also goes for the prescribed SAP choice.</div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">Kashmira </div></div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="">On Fri, 03 Aug 2018, 4:48 PM Sindile Bidla, <<a href="mailto:sindile.bidla@geoilocate.co.za" class="">sindile.bidla@geoilocate.co.za</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><u class=""></u><div class=""><div style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><div class="">Dear List,<br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The Department of Home Affairs has canceled the geographical accessibility study tender. Hopefully the new tender will not unfairly disadvantage other players in the sector.<br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Regards,<br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div id="m_6244440521931085794Zm-_Id_-Sgn" class=""><div class=""><span class=""><span class="m_6244440521931085794colour" style="color:rgb(136,136,136)">Sindile XJ Bidla</span></span><br class=""></div><span class=""><span class="m_6244440521931085794colour" style="color:rgb(136,136,136)"><table style="background:none;border-width:0px;border:0px;margin:0;padding:0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" class=""><tbody class=""><tr class=""><td style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-size:14px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif" colspan="2" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><b class=""><span class="m_6244440521931085794size" style="font-size:16px">Geoilocate</span></b><br class=""></div></td></tr></tbody></table></span></span></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="m_6244440521931085794zmail_extra"><div id="m_6244440521931085794Zm-_Id_-Sgn1" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">---- On Mon, 30 Jul 2018 10:08:39 +0200 <b class="">Sindile Bidla <<a href="mailto:sindile.bidla@geoilocate.co.za" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" class="">sindile.bidla@geoilocate.co.za</a>></b> wrote ----<br class=""></div></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><blockquote style="border-left:1px solid #cccccc;padding-left:6px;margin:0 0 0 5px" class=""><div class="m_6244440521931085794zm_2654896286865458857_parse_-9130648483097092900"><div style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><div class="">Dear List<br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Those who are concerned by this issue could perhaps raise it with the CFO (I have sent him an email and spoke to him on the phone). <br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><img src="cid:0.28869202910.7089401229416902221.1650042541b__inline__img__src" width="313" height="117" class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">This creates a defacto monopoly with regards to GIS services in Government and does not encourage the emergence of other players.<br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div class=""><span class=""><span class="m_6244440521931085794colour" style="color:rgb(136,136,136)">Sindile XJ Bidla</span></span><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class=""><span class="m_6244440521931085794colour" style="color:rgb(136,136,136)"></span></span><br class=""></div></div><div class="m_6244440521931085794x_1902028249zmail_extra"><div class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">---- On Mon, 30 Jul 2018 08:30:45 +0200 <b class="">Zoltan <<a href="mailto:zoltans@geograph.co.za" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" class="">zoltans@geograph.co.za</a>></b> wrote ----<br class=""></div></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div></div><blockquote style="border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:6px;margin:0 0 0 5px" class=""><div class="m_6244440521931085794x_1902028249 m_6244440521931085794x_1902028249zm_-2645960227891075044_parse_-2213469142568754741"><div class="">Hi List,<br class=""></div><div class="">To me, this is exactly the problem bodies like GISSA and SAGI need tackle.<br class=""></div><div class="">These Institutes/Societies are "there for their members", whereas the Professional bodies (SAGC) are their for their "Members' clients" (very broadly speaking).<br class=""></div><div class="">GISSA charges a pittance for its membership fees. <br class=""></div><div class="">SAGI doesn't (charge a pittance), but SAGI gets things done - more for their surveyors at this stage, but as their professional approach swings more to the GISc side, that is where things will start to happen for us (GISc types).<br class=""></div><div class="">Join one, and become an evangelist/rabble-rouser or whatever you need to be in order to start swinging the tide.<br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">It is ludicrous that in this age of technology we are told that a hand-brush is needed to maintain the data, so now use a hand-brush to capture it all.<br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Perhaps start by looking hard at the import/export options on ESRI products, and finding a way in through those methodologies.<br class=""></div><div class="">Once the users see that data flows easily in and out of Arc, the next step can be taken.<br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Hope this thought helps.<br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Regards,<br class=""></div><div class="">Zoltan<br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="m_6244440521931085794x_1902028249x_-1520971826moz-cite-prefix">On 2018/07/30 07:37, Angie Atkinson wrote:<br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><pre class="m_6244440521931085794x_1902028249x_-1520971826moz-signature">--
=============================================
Zoltan Szecsei GPrGISc 0031
Geograph (Pty) Ltd.
GIS and Photogrammetric Services
P.O. Box 7, Muizenberg 7950, South Africa.
Mobile: +27-83-6004028
Fax: +27-86-6115323 <a class="m_6244440521931085794x_1902028249x_-1520971826moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.geograph.co.za/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">www.geograph.co.za</a>
=============================================<br class=""></pre></div><div class="">_______________________________________________<br class=""></div><div class="">Africa mailing list<br class=""></div><div class=""><a href="mailto:Africa@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" class="">Africa@lists.osgeo.org</a><br class=""></div><div class="">You can UNSUBSCRIBE at <a href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/africa" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" class="">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/africa</a><br class=""></div><blockquote class=""><div class="m_6244440521931085794x_1902028249x_-1520971826WordSection1"><p class="m_6244440521931085794x_1902028249x_-1520971826MsoNormal"><span class="">Hi Everyone,</span><br class=""></p><p class="m_6244440521931085794x_1902028249x_-1520971826MsoNormal"><span class=""> </span><br class=""></p><p class="m_6244440521931085794x_1902028249x_-1520971826MsoNormal"><span class="">I have just read all the comments and replies with regards to the requirement that one uses ESRI.</span><br class=""></p><p class="m_6244440521931085794x_1902028249x_-1520971826MsoNormal"><span class=""> </span><br class=""></p><p class="m_6244440521931085794x_1902028249x_-1520971826MsoNormal"><span class="">Something we have come across and what is a concern for us as well is that in most of the tenders, and will more than likely soon be come all tenders, stipulates that one needs to provide the municipality / government department with an ARC Map Package, no other software is compatible with this except for ARC, so unless the TORs states that one can provide shapefiles compatible with ESRI/ARC you will need to have ARC so that you can comply with the TOR requesting a Map Package.</span><br class=""></p><p class="m_6244440521931085794x_1902028249x_-1520971826MsoNormal"><span class=""> </span><br class=""></p><p class="m_6244440521931085794x_1902028249x_-1520971826MsoNormal"><span class="">Many of the Government Departments we work with have indicated that the ARC Map Package is the ARC GIS Format they are referring to when asking for data, some have amended the TORs to indicate that the data needs to be provided in ARC Map Package format.</span><br class=""></p><p class="m_6244440521931085794x_1902028249x_-1520971826MsoNormal"><span class=""> </span><br class=""></p><p class="m_6244440521931085794x_1902028249x_-1520971826MsoNormal"><span class="">Regards</span><br class=""></p><p class="m_6244440521931085794x_1902028249x_-1520971826MsoNormal"><span class=""> </span><br class=""></p><p class="m_6244440521931085794x_1902028249x_-1520971826MsoNormal"><span class="">Angie</span><br class=""></p><p class="m_6244440521931085794x_1902028249x_-1520971826MsoNormal"><span class=""> </span><br class=""></p><p class="m_6244440521931085794x_1902028249x_-1520971826MsoNormal"><span class=""> </span><br class=""></p><div class=""><div style="border:none;border-top:solid rgb(225,225,225) 1pt;padding:3pt 0cm 0cm 0cm" class=""><p class="m_6244440521931085794x_1902028249x_-1520971826MsoNormal"><b class=""><span class="">From:</span></b><span class=""> Africa <a class="m_6244440521931085794x_1902028249x_-1520971826moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:africa-bounces@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><africa-bounces@lists.osgeo.org></a> <b class="">On Behalf Of </b>Gavin Fleming<br class=""> <b class="">Sent:</b> Thursday, 26 July 2018 10:10<br class=""> <b class="">To:</b> Africa local chapter discussions <a class="m_6244440521931085794x_1902028249x_-1520971826moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:africa@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><africa@lists.osgeo.org></a><br class=""> <b class="">Subject:</b> [OSGeo Africa] ESRI in Government and tender requirements</span></p></div></div><p class="m_6244440521931085794x_1902028249x_-1520971826MsoNormal"> <br class=""></p><p class="m_6244440521931085794x_1902028249x_-1520971826MsoNormal">Hi all<br class=""></p><div class=""><p class="m_6244440521931085794x_1902028249x_-1520971826MsoNormal"> <br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="m_6244440521931085794x_1902028249x_-1520971826MsoNormal">I attended the briefing session for the Department of Home Affairs geographical accessibility study (Thanks Zoltan for the heads-up).<br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="m_6244440521931085794x_1902028249x_-1520971826MsoNormal"> <br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="m_6244440521931085794x_1902028249x_-1520971826MsoNormal">The ToR states that the service provider has to have ArcGIS. I asked for this requirement to be removed since it does not matter what software the service provider uses as long as they deliver the result. The response from DHA was that Govt has a ’transversal ESRI licence’ and that all Govt departments have to use ESRI! Never mind that this is completely contrary to the FOSS policy agreed to by Cabinet in 2007 and against SITA procurement policy, if it even is true that Govt is ‘has to’ use ESRI that does NOT mean service providers have to. Nevertheless I got a vocal support from other attendees as this requirement is ridiculous and exclusionary. <br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="m_6244440521931085794x_1902028249x_-1520971826MsoNormal"> <br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="m_6244440521931085794x_1902028249x_-1520971826MsoNormal">DHA went further to say they want service providers to use ArcGIS so they don’t end up with issues using the data that service providers deliver. They are confusing software with data and don’t seem to be aware (or are so brainwashed) that most formats produced by most GIS software these days are completely interoperable. Furthermore they are unaware of and indeed flouting the MIOS (SA Govt Minimum Interoperability Standards).<br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="m_6244440521931085794x_1902028249x_-1520971826MsoNormal"> <br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="m_6244440521931085794x_1902028249x_-1520971826MsoNormal">Even worse and quite nonsensical is this formal response from DHA to all attendees of the briefing session:<br class=""></p><ul class=""><li class="m_6244440521931085794x_1902028249x_-1520971826MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:7.95pt;line-height:107%"><span class="">Relating to SITA circular 1 of 2017/18 and National Treasury SCM circular 3 of 2017/8, it is a requirement that all Government departments make use of ESRI South Africa for software and therefore the format required will be in Arc GIS format.</span><br class=""></li></ul><p class="m_6244440521931085794x_1902028249x_-1520971826MsoNormal">Firstly there is no such thing as ‘Arc GIS format’. Secondly this is blatantly incorrect (and illegal if it is true). Lastly, can anyone enlighten the list as to the contents of the two circulars mentioned and whether they even support this argument?<br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="m_6244440521931085794x_1902028249x_-1520971826MsoNormal"> <br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="m_6244440521931085794x_1902028249x_-1520971826MsoNormal">Your thoughts? Anyone willing to take action?<br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="m_6244440521931085794x_1902028249x_-1520971826MsoNormal"> <br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="m_6244440521931085794x_1902028249x_-1520971826MsoNormal">regards<br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="m_6244440521931085794x_1902028249x_-1520971826MsoNormal"> <br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="m_6244440521931085794x_1902028249x_-1520971826MsoNormal">Gavin<br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="m_6244440521931085794x_1902028249x_-1520971826MsoNormal"> <br class=""></p></div></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><pre class="">_______________________________________________
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