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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-ZA link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Dear All,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Reading the tender, I do believe its flawed in a number of respects.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><ol style='margin-top:0cm' start=1 type=1><li class=MsoListParagraph style='color:windowtext;margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3;text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>It does not follow Government policy - Foss Policy adoption.</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=MsoListParagraph style='color:windowtext;margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3;text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>The tender states “</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Unlimited GIS software license distribution for a period of three (3) years including all extensions and add-on software.” – such does not make any sense at all in era when government is attempting to save monies and cut costs. In fact it suggests no real needs assessment was even done or consideration of other software. Just a decision to renew existing software. Not everybody needs a full package or all extensions, many users can get away with a simple viewer.<o:p></o:p></span></li></ol><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'>GISc people should have no problem in understanding different software’s and if I can pick up QGis and run with it at production level in 2 days (without training), I don’t see why it’s so hard to implement. The government should simply put out its GIS needs / workflows, companies can then bring on board such matters as SAQA training, 24hr support etc (creating jobs and competition)…. – one cannot scan the market and say who does 24hr support and SAQA training and we will buy their product – that is wrong.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'>What is quite telling is the lack of even mentioning the product name in the tender, perhaps to get around procurement rules ?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'>Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'>Peter Newmarch</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'> Africa <africa-bounces@lists.osgeo.org> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Luncedo Ngcofe<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, 12 September 2019 08:05<br><b>To:</b> Africa local chapter discussions <africa@lists.osgeo.org><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [OSGeo Africa] Help prevent DRDLR and other government entities from deviously renewing their ESRI ELAs<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Morning all<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Here is my view with regards to the topic above:<o:p></o:p></span></p><ul style='margin-top:0cm' type=disc><li class=MsoListParagraph style='color:#1F497D;margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo2'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>The Open source champions should start at tertiary institutions in assisting with the implementation of use of open source software. This will create required soldiers which will form part of the government decisions in the future.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=MsoListParagraph style='color:#1F497D;margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo2'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>One of the advantages of the licenced software is the 24hrs service agreement should the user have any challenges with the software. I believe there is not guarantee availability for this for free open source software. This is where the open source should also bridge the gap as this have major impacts on government workflows should the project not solved on time. <o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=MsoListParagraph style='color:#1F497D;margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo2'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>One should also investigate workflow systems of government organisations in order to provide open source as a potential long term solution. Without this knowledge then it would be difficult to proposed an open source software as a solution. In this case one would need to investigate why is DRDLR preferring a licenced software. Does the open source offer the workflow capabilities for such a Department? <o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=MsoListParagraph style='color:#1F497D;margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo2'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>The commercial software companies once in a while visits the Departments and assesses how they can offer advance products than their competitors and do studies how would such transformation impact on the production flow of the government and thus how would they assist if such a change would take place. All this information therefore forms part of decision making towards a desirable software to use as an organisation.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=MsoListParagraph style='color:#1F497D;margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo2'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>My suggestion would be for open source compatriots to embark on such practical studies and therefore be on the stable ground when pushing for large consideration of open source software in government institutions.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=MsoListParagraph style='color:#1F497D;margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo2'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>On small scale projects, the open source software is used by government organisations. <o:p></o:p></span></li></ul><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Kind Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Luncedo Ngcofe<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=imprintuniqueid> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'> Africa [<a href="mailto:africa-bounces@lists.osgeo.org">mailto:africa-bounces@lists.osgeo.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Zoltan Szecsei<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, 12 September 2019 07:19<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:africa@lists.osgeo.org">africa@lists.osgeo.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [OSGeo Africa] Help prevent DRDLR and other government entities from deviously renewing their ESRI ELAs<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Hi Gavin/List,<br>This 'rant' has been around for decades (OK, maybe singular, not plural), yet it has always been in the form of an open rant, and not a direction.<br><br>As a community we have always championed user groups etc, with a handful of people making the effort, and everyone benefiting.<br>This is the norm, and I see it no different (in manpower effort and 'split') from energy required for past endeavors. (So no-one should be scared of getting involved).<br><br>I would like to suggest a way forward.<br>But this is strictly about getting Open Source to have a fair look-in, and not about the specifics of any tender or purchase.<br>My support is for leveling the playing field, and for exposing/wiping out badly constructed Bid specifications.<br><br>If my suggestion is bad/useless/whatever, I hope at least it does cause some debate that might turn into direction.<br><br>So,<br>Perhaps you could do some initial research, maybe applicable laws or policy guidance documents.<br>Perhaps listers working in government can point to some relevant documents on this matter.<br><br>Then find some legal-minded person to cost out a strategy, and of course make a 'feasibility of success' statement.<br>After that, we could have a worthwhile direction.<br><br>With a feasible direction we could try some crowd funding - or maybe even just have to make some representation (through SAGI??) to some government body with the power to change things.<br><br>I am still playing in the sand out here (Qatar), so cannot offer to help, but providing we have a direction and a crowd funding platform, I will pledge R1000 to further this cause.<br><br>Anyone else with some ideas?<br><br>Regards,<br>Zoltan<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 2019/09/11 14:43, Gavin Fleming wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre>If you have the time and energy, I invite you to help do something about this thinly veiled attempt at renewing the DRDLR ESRI ELA, when they are expressly not allowed to. They are supposed to go to open tender and consider alternatives and in particular, FOSS alternatives. <o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>This is one of many attempts by government entities to bypass official procurement procedures and simply renew their ESRI ELAs (Same goes for Oracle and other proprietary vendors). Most I’ve come across, like Drakenstein municipality and Ekurhuleni and Joburg Metros, are finding or have found means to do this without even tendering (for example by invoking sole supplier status or abusing the SITA ‘framework agreement’) . In this case DRDLR is going out to tender, but it is hardly open nor fair (just read it!)<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Then you get municipalities like Molemole illegally requesting named products in tenders and worse, giving the market minimal time to respond: <o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>"COR 8/1/1/09: Molemole Municipality is hereby inviting quotations from service providers to render a service of supply, delivery, installation and configuration of ArcGIS licenses. Specifications: 1. Level 2 Term License; 5 user Pack; 2. Level 1 Term License; 10 User Pack; 3. Service Credits; 1 Block (1000 Credits); 4. Map (1); Drone 2 Map for ArcGIS Term License. Please note that this quotation was published late.” <o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Or Mandeni:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>"13/19/20: Quotations are hereby invited from suitably service providers to supply and deliver of Software Licenses as per the following specification: • ... • ESRI Software maintenance renewal End User No: 307570"<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>SAGI, CSI, SITA, GISSA, Practitioners, Competition commission? Why are we allowing this anticompetitive and unaffordable practice to continue, especially in light of the current economic and political climate in SA?<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Gavin<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Africa mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="mailto:Africa@lists.osgeo.org">Africa@lists.osgeo.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>You can UNSUBSCRIBE at <a href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/africa">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/africa</a><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>=============================================<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Zoltan Szecsei GPrGISc 0031<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Geograph (Pty) Ltd.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>GIS and Photogrammetric Services<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>P.O. Box 7, Muizenberg 7950, South Africa.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Mobile: +27-83-6004028<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Qatar: +974 5083 2722 <a href="http://www.geograph.co.za">www.geograph.co.za</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>=============================================<o:p></o:p></pre></div></body></html>