<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div dir="ltr"><span></span></div><div dir="ltr"><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">Hi,<div><br></div><div>People need educating as to what they actually need as they don’t often have the knowledge and those offering the solutions need to deliver the best ones and “hold the hand” of the client. At the end of the day the quality of a product like QGIS and the affordability of only having to bring in trainers and customisation experts will win over the current inertia of ESRI GIS. </div><div><br></div><div>A clear example which happens often in Africa is the procurement of Laptop’s and Workstations that have 32bit windows software installed on 64bit architecture! It works out of the box but is the wrong solution. (Check yours now as it may be the case 😳)!! Procurement officers don’t always have the IT skills to know otherwise.</div><div><br></div><div>There are many skilled people in the open source community who offer support and maintenance for fees (just like proprietary companies) so the argument for not having support on offer isn’t a very strong one. Plenty of free support is available but if you need professional support then hire it.</div><div><br></div><div>Justin</div><div><br></div><div><div dir="ltr">Whatsapp: +44 7956 285077<div>Skype: lotfrance </div><div>French mob: +33 768 751 750</div><div>UK mob: +44 7956 285077</div><div>Malawi mob: +265 99 855 7007</div></div><div dir="ltr"><br>On 17 Oct 2019, at 14:14, Leon Vosloo <<a href="mailto:leon.v@govanmbeki.gov.za">leon.v@govanmbeki.gov.za</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"><!--[if !mso]><style>v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--><div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Hi<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I followed some of the discussions on this topic, and it is not as easy as you would like it to sound. I want to raise a few issues which I hope may give an better understanding and personally think need to be addressed to ease the mind of people afraid of using it.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Before I continue, I need to say that I personally are a supporter for open source packages.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">However issues that is surely uncertain in the open community is the following: (taking into account that it is not everyone that know about these packages or have the know how where to get it or what its reliability is, and what is the best package for me or is it user friendly. We are in general people from different profession backgrounds. So in short people use what they know what works for them.) <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="font-family:Symbol;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Some years back I wanted to install Linux to my personal computer – the hardware supplier did not even want to go that route giving reasons like – there are too many basic operating software packages that they are afraid of installing the OS, as they will have to install too many other add–on’s to let all the hardware and software work. Till today I rather stay away as I am no expert in this field.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="font-family:Symbol;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I am using open office at home- the problem is if I give this information (e.g. Spreadsheet file) to someone else, some functionalities is claimed not to work properly and there is always a message that information can be lost. We live in an environment where people cannot afford to lose any data. So security and integrity of data is key, even sharing between paid and non-paid software. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="font-family:Symbol;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">There is no e-mail package that integrates with an open office package that I know off, or work as easy as outlook. Not even the one I am using (forgot its name).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="font-family:Symbol;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">GIS – this is in a different league as it entails a lot more than the above.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="font-family:"Courier New";color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">o<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">When it comes to desktop applications I think there are good open source products that can be used and it is surely debatable which is superior or more suitable software for an company or institution as needs differ. My little knowledge about it is that specific GIS packages have been developed for specific needs – meaning that they are strong in certain functionalities e.g. 3D. Government need a good all-rounder, capable of dealing with many and large datasets.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="font-family:"Courier New";color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">o<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">A lot of institutions and government bodies works with limited personnel. So good support structures are needed and also needs to be available to visit offices to assist with sorting out issues that may arise. I have not seen or heard about any such business supporting open source GIS or any other open source software.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="font-family:"Courier New";color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">o<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Software Training is needed from time to time, especially when it is used for the first time or when upgrades was installed. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="font-family:"Courier New";color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">o<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">GIS is normally also kept on a server. Again there are limited information available on what combinations of open source software is available and works perfectly together. This now ranges from OS, SQL, GIS server software, Backup solution, office package, security solutions, even desktop GIS compatibility, etc. things that may be common knowledge to you may be a mountain for someone else.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="font-family:"Courier New";color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">o<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">It is one thing to know what works well together but is it a good all-rounder package to the needs of the institution, and who can set it up. Remember I made the comment that most institutions work with limited staff and GIS have various Fields of expertise.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="font-family:"Courier New";color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">o<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I think one can add a lot more issues to this list but will stop here.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="font-family:Symbol;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Government tenders: I have seen a few comments that is a concern to the open source community and I am not trying to defend anyone, I am talking from my perspective.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="font-family:"Courier New";color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">o<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Tenders should be open and fair and that is correct. Government Tenders should comply with National treasury regulations. The employer is therefore limited in using brand names. For example, if I need spares for a Toyota, you should indicate the brand and model, etc. of the vehicle, otherwise the tenderer will not know what to tender for. Surely a Mahindra petrol pump may not work on it (maybe it will I don’t know) yet there are universal spares available. The employer now have a problem as he needs a specific quality. You also do not want a situation the potential supplier tender for genuine parts, but delivers sub-standard products. So you ask that it at least be measured against a standard, or minimum SABS, or whatever the case may be and that the tenderer provided on the tender document the brand name tendered for.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="font-family:"Courier New";color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">o<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">With Software this is not as easy and compatibility and costs starts to be an issue.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="font-family:"Courier New";color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">o<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">The issue of licences needed does not necessarily refer to a specific GIS brand (as there is again a few paid GIS software options available). It is a way to indicate how many people will need to use the software either desktop users, internal web based viewers from the server, direct users to the server, etc. So I do not see this as ring-fencing but rather information, on how big the setup is. I believe certain GIS server software is more suitable for small user groups while others can deal with huge groups. It is up to the tenderer to decide on the licence price. I can see that there are frustrations and maybe legal issues in this. After all - Open source is supposed to be free:-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="font-family:"Courier New";color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">o<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I think if someone (company / supplier / individual) do his homework very well come up with a very good proposal and can guarantee long term support, installation, setup, and training service (for a price) a tender might just be won (and of course I cannot guarantee that). It is an open market and everyone (open source and paid programs) should be able to have an equal opportunity to tender. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Are there anyone in the open source community who can deliver support services on a full time basis? <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Please people, I am not criticising, I just wanted to highlight some issues and that you also understand that there is a lot of uncertainties about a lot of issues. I think there is still a lot of research to be done and knowledge be shared through good marketing.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Kind regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Leon <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0mm 0mm 0mm"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Africa [<a href="mailto:africa-bounces@lists.osgeo.org">mailto:africa-bounces@lists.osgeo.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Immo Blecher<br><b>Sent:</b> 16 October 2019 09:56 PM<br><b>To:</b> Africa local chapter discussions <<a href="mailto:africa@lists.osgeo.org">africa@lists.osgeo.org</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [OSGeo Africa] Another illegal GIS RfQ<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Hi All, <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">I think this is ignorance. The people involved in sourcing the software, whatever it is (even Office packages) have got no clue, because they don't care. So they go the easy route... Just quote for whatever we have. And as long as there is nobody looking into "hey dude... are you actually doing your job? Have you investigated other options? " nothing will change. And even marketing the alternatives won't help...this will take time!!!<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">My 2 cents. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">--<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Immo F. Blecher <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Street: 36 Saffraan Ave., Die Boord, Stellenbosch, 7613, South Africa <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Postal: PO Box 74, Lynedoch, 7603, South Africa <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Cell: +27 83 272 6791 | Fax: +27 86 736 3302 <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Email: <a href="mailto:immo@blecher.co.za">immo@blecher.co.za</a> | <a href="mailto:immob19@gmail.com">immob19@gmail.com</a> | <a href="mailto:immob@mymtnmail.co.za">immob@mymtnmail.co.za</a> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Internet: <a href="https://www.blecher.co.za">https://www.blecher.co.za</a> / <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Please consider your environmental responsibility. Before printing this e-mail message, ask yourself whether you really need a hard copy.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Get <a href="http://www.bluemail.me/r?b=15704">BlueMail for Android</a> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">On 16 Oct 2019, at 21:37, Gavin Fleming <<a href="mailto:gavinjfleming@gmail.com" target="_blank">gavinjfleming@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0mm 0mm 0mm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0mm"><pre style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>this time, Umungundlovu DM not even trying to hide names.<br><br>Government entities are not allowed to simply renew contracts like these ELAs. They have to go out to *open* tender to test the market for alternative solutions and lower prices. <br><br><a href="http://www.umdm.gov.za/Official_Site/index.php/quotations/req02148-2019-supply-enviromental-systems-research-institute-esri-licensing-maintenance-renewal-from-november-2019-to-november-2020/download">http://www.umdm.gov.za/Official_Site/index.php/quotations/req02148-2019-supply-enviromental-systems-research-institute-esri-licensing-maintenance-renewal-from-november-2019-to-november-2020/download</a><br><br>Now how many firms can compete for this one?<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="text-align:center"><hr size="2" width="100%" align="center"></pre><pre><br>Africa mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Africa@lists.osgeo.org">Africa@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>You can UNSUBSCRIBE at <a href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/africa">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/africa</a><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>Africa mailing list</span><br><span><a href="mailto:Africa@lists.osgeo.org">Africa@lists.osgeo.org</a></span><br><span>You can UNSUBSCRIBE at <a href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/africa">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/africa</a></span></div></blockquote></div></div></body></html>