[Board] [EXTERNAL] Re: Support fot OSGeo officers (Re: My attendance in Portland)
Cameron Shorter
cameron.shorter at gmail.com
Wed Jul 16 13:25:26 PDT 2014
To help bring this thread to conclusion, such that Jeff can book flights
to foss4g, I'll add my vote which is +1 to cover travel plus expenses
(based on Jeff's estimates), in line with the other supporting comments
to that regard.
My other comments, which seem to be of less interest in the thread is
the importance of providing accountability for when we spend money.
Answering what do we expect to gain when we spend the money.
On 16/07/2014 11:29 pm, Daniel Kastl wrote:
> What if you try to avoid to let a single person travel around the
> world until he resigns because he run out of money or just got burned
> out? ;-)
> It may be fun (for a while), but it is also a lot of work.
>
> Open source software development is done by a community and not a
> single person/company. That's why we are strong. So isn't better to
> let the nearby OSGeo "advocates" speak and OSGeo could offer to pay
> (if requested) for the travel expenses from a yearly budget. This
> would lower the costs and share the work.
>
> And if a conference wants to have the president speaking, then they
> must cover the travel expenses.
>
> Daniel
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 2:20 PM, Smith, Michael ERDC-RDE-CRREL-NH
> <Michael.Smith at erdc.dren.mil <mailto:Michael.Smith at erdc.dren.mil>> wrote:
>
> I agree, a very strong +1. I would also say that something like a
> membership fee could help support travel activities for designated
> OSGeo
> Board members. While we are a volunteer organization, I do not believe
> that OSGeo officers should have to fund OSGeo required/desired travel.
>
> Mike
>
> --
> Michael Smith
>
> US Army Corps
> Remote Sensing GIS/Center
>
>
>
> On 7/16/14, 8:12 AM, "Daniel Morissette" <dmorissette at mapgears.com
> <mailto:dmorissette at mapgears.com>> wrote:
>
> >Strong +1 on everything Arnulf wrote here.
> >
> >Daniel
> >
> >
> >On 14-07-16 4:07 AM, Seven (aka Arnulf) wrote:
> >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> >> Hash: SHA1
> >>
> >> Even,
> >> this is well summarized, thanks.
> >>
> >> (...if you missed the thread go check the board list)
> >>
> >> Further to this I mut say that the president should get all the
> >> support from OSGeo to travel to events - very obviously also
> including
> >> FOSS4G. I never asked directly because I felt awkward. Stupid but
> >> honest. Towards the end of my presidency I did ask and also got
> some
> >> travel support because otherwise I would not have been able to
> sustain
> >> it. I have it all in plain numbers before me now because my
> accountant
> >> made a point of tagging everything I did for OSGeo or for
> business. In
> >> 2011 I spent more than 35k US$ for travel - all out of my own
> pocket
> >> except for 10% out of OSGeo budget. This is in low cost
> >> accommodations, just to put numbers into relation. Traveling at a
> >> higher standard would have pushed my travel budget to 70$ or 100k
> >>easily.
> >>
> >> Next: Yes, my business suffered a lot during my presidency. It
> is one
> >> of the reasons why I think that the term should be limited.
> Oher than
> >> Jeff I think that one year president elect followed by one year
> full
> >> president is enough. There is nothing worse than burning out your
> >> presidents and discarding them when they are done. Not good.
> >>
> >> Yes, being president connected me with many "important" people and
> >> yes, I expected to get great job offers. This did not happen.
> People
> >> expect that you get paid if you meet them at conferences in the
> role
> >> of OSGeo president. They all get paid to get there themselves. They
> >> cannot even imagine that you would go there on your own,
> private cost.
> >> It is usually only the odd single consultant who has to pay "on
> their
> >> own". Everybody else gets sent by their company. Strangely all
> OSGeo's
> >> last presidents at one point were odd single consultants and had to
> >> pay for conferences, cater for their own travel and
> accommodation. So
> >> if you like these folks to reperesent you then make sure they can
> >> afford it.
> >>
> >> Ha, this developed a bit into a rant, please excuse.
> >>
> >> But please give our president and the board and all the OSGeo
> officers
> >> all the support they need. Rest assure that they deserve it and
> also
> >> rest assured that they will not misuse any funding they get. I
> >> personally vouch for each single one of the folks on the board
> right
> >> now and before. Hard working nice people who just have this
> extra edge
> >> to drive OSGeo forward.
> >>
> >> And if you don't like how anybody in these roles acts then nominate
> >> and vote differently next time. It is very straight forward,
> really.
> >> Stand up yourself and do things, after all we declared it a
> do-ocracy
> >> not a complai-no-crazy.
> >>
> >> Have fun,
> >> Arnulf
> >>
> >> PS:
> >> I am currently offline on holidays and only chimed in by pure
> chance
> >> so please do not expect anything else from me until beginning
> of August.
> >>
> >> /me waves...
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 07/15/2014 10:02 AM, Even Rouault wrote:
> >>> Cameron,
> >>>
> >>> I agree in principle with the accountability, but I don't think we
> >>> should make Jeff's life harder than it needs to be. In the
> end, the
> >>> board is elected and if people are not happy with how the
> budget is
> >>> spent, they will say it with their votes. Let trust people, and
> >>> especially when their past accomplishments speak for them. And for
> >>> having been in Notthingham last year, I can remember having seen
> >>> Jeff many times on the OSGeo booth.
> >>>
> >>> Best regards,
> >>>
> >>> Even
> >>>
> >>>> Hi Jeff, I acknowledge that you do a lot on behalf of OSGeo, and
> >>>> would hasten to add other things that you do, such as traveling
> >>>> to and presenting at various conferences about OSGeo. (There are
> >>>> also many others amongst the OSGeo membership who do much, often
> >>>> with very little public recognition).
> >>>>
> >>>> Following are a few points for my opinion:
> >>>>
> >>>> What OSGeo is very good at is being efficient in how we spend
> >>>> our limited budget by drawing upon our talented membership (see
> >>>> Board priorities [1]).
> >>>>
> >>>> There are specific tasks which the board should be addressing,
> >>>> and funding if required. One of these I think is important is
> >>>> the setting up and manning of an OSGeo booth at the annual FOSS4G
> >>>> conference. It is an excellent way to meet face to face with the
> >>>> greater community. This task can be done by anyone from the
> >>>> community, but it does help to have people with deep OSGeo
> >>>> experience, such as a board member or president.
> >>>>
> >>>> Personally, I don't see what the big issue is regarding setting
> >>>> up a booth. I've done it a number of times. I really enjoy being
> >>>> at the OSGeo booth because it attracts lots of really interesting
> >>>> people who would love to know more about OSGeo. All that is
> >>>> required is for someone to bring an OSGeo banner, and have a
> >>>> laptop showing OSGeo-Live on it. (Some people do more, but that
> >>>> covers the essentials).
> >>>>
> >>>> The board should be accountable to our members for all budget
> >>>> spent. If we pay for someone's travel budget to a conference,
> >>>> what does OSGeo gain from that sponsorship beyond what is already
> >>>> provided by existing attendees? It is an easy question to answer
> >>>> if the money is going toward manning a booth, where we evangelise
> >>>> OSGeo.
> >>>>
> >>>> So anyway, it is possible we have a misunderstanding over how
> >>>> much effort is required to be involved in an OSGeo booth, and
> >>>> hope that you can re-consider.
> >>>>
> >>>> [1]
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Board_of_Directors#OSGeo_as_a_low_capital.2C_
> >>>volunteer_focused_organisation
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >> On 14/07/2014 9:30 pm, Jeff McKenna wrote:
> >>>>> Hi Cameron,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I would agree that it is very important to have a face of
> >>>>> OSGeo representing the foundation at the main FOSS4G event.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> As I grow into this role (I've only been President for about
> >>>>> 1.5 years now) I realize the demands of the position, and how
> >>>>> important it is to build and maintain relationships (especially
> >>>>> with other foundations and groups in our 'ecosystem'). There
> >>>>> is a lot to the position, and a lot that no one sees (I am
> >>>>> brought into discussions as OSGeo president almost every day it
> >>>>> seems).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> With that said, adding to my responsibilities, with already so
> >>>>> much on my plate, is not possible. Plus you can search the
> >>>>> OSGeo Marketing mailing list for questions from me about this
> >>>>> time last year for booth materials for Nottingham (unanswered,
> >>>>> materials non-existent). The reality is that it always comes
> >>>>> down to boots-on-the-ground for making the booth happen
> >>>>> (massive thanks to Ian Edwards last year in Nottingham, as an
> >>>>> example). As president I will be already pulled into so many
> >>>>> things in Portland.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> As an example, the LOC is already on me about the AGM...and I
> >>>>> must soon start the Sol Katz process...likely help Jorge with
> >>>>> elections.... get my drift?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Also, unfortunately again charter members send me private
> >>>>> messages saying great things that I want the whole community to
> >>>>> hear - but in the end it is me bringing it public again. So,
> >>>>> here it is again: I got several responses privately to this
> >>>>> 'attendance' message that it is terrible that i must ask for
> >>>>> funding as president, that there should be a separate president
> >>>>> travel budget and i shouldn't have to justify publicly
> >>>>> travel..that this message is noise and we should be talking of
> >>>>> more important things etc etc...all true, but i wish they would
> >>>>> bring this public and not me have to say it. well here again i
> >>>>> am.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So to answer your questions directly Cameron: I am more than
> >>>>> ready to represent OSGeo in the Portland event. I feel it is
> >>>>> very important to have this constant and stable face of OSGeo
> >>>>> at events. As for increasing my role, that is really
> >>>>> physically impossible; I will do my best, but I would ask that
> >>>>> we rely on a local chapter for gathering booth materials etc.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Your President,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -jeff
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 2014-07-13, 4:26 AM, Cameron Shorter wrote:
> >>>>>> Hi Jeff and others, I think that it is important for an
> >>>>>> official OSGeo representative to be at the FOSS4G conference
> >>>>>> to facilitate evangelising OSGeo, and OSGeo (or FOSS4G)
> >>>>>> should cover expenses of this person. Ideally, this person
> >>>>>> should be the OSGeo President, but could be someone else if
> >>>>>> the president is not available.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I would envisage the representative would play quite a public
> >>>>>> role, likely talking with many people at an OSGeo booth. This
> >>>>>> would typically involve the representative also playing a
> >>>>>> lead role in ensuring the OSGeo booth is set up and running
> >>>>>> smoothly.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Jeff, would you be ok with taking on this type of role? Could
> >>>>>> you please expand on how you would envisage this working.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 11/07/2014 3:34 am, Jeff McKenna wrote:
> >>>>>>> Hi Board,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> We're about 2 months away from FOSS4G-Portland, and I just
> >>>>>>> want to be open that no one has contacted me to represent
> >>>>>>> OSGeo at that event. Other (regional) events give me lots
> >>>>>>> of notice, handle flights, hotels, meals, for the OSGeo
> >>>>>>> President to attend; however I learned last year that for
> >>>>>>> the main FOSS4G event it is just assumed that I will be
> >>>>>>> there in person. Well to avoid that last minute chaos
> >>>>>>> again, I am here asking the Board for use of the "Strategic
> >>>>>>> travel" funding (as listed in the budget
> >>>>>>> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/OSGeo_Budget_2014) to cover my
> >>>>>>> flights, hotel, and misc expenses (transfers) for FOSS4G
> >>>>>>> Portland.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Last year there was a debate as to whether this should be
> >>>>>>> funded by the FOSS4G committee or in fact by the OSGeo
> >>>>>>> Board, and it was decided it made most sense for the OSGeo
> >>>>>>> Board to cover it.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Thoughts?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> -jeff
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________ Board mailing
> >>>>> list Board at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:Board at lists.osgeo.org>
> >>>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/board
> >>>>
> >>>> -- Cameron Shorter, Software and Data Solutions Manager LISAsoft
> >>>> Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf, 26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009
> >>>>
> >>>> P +61 2 9009 5000 <tel:%2B61%202%209009%205000>, W
> www.lisasoft.com <http://www.lisasoft.com>, F +61 2 9009 5099
> <tel:%2B61%202%209009%205099>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________ Board mailing
> >>>> list Board at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:Board at lists.osgeo.org>
> >>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/board
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________ Board mailing list
> >>> Board at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:Board at lists.osgeo.org>
> >>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/board
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> - --
> >> Seven of Nine
> >> http://arnulf.us/Seven
> >> Exploring Body, Space and Mind
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> >>
> >
> >
> >--
> >Daniel Morissette
> >T: +1 418-696-5056 #201 <tel:%2B1%20418-696-5056%20%23201>
> >http://www.mapgears.com/
> >Provider of Professional MapServer Support since 2000
> >_______________________________________________
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> >Board at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:Board at lists.osgeo.org>
> >http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/board
>
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>
>
>
> --
> Georepublic UG & Georepublic Japan
> eMail: daniel.kastl at georepublic.de <mailto:daniel.kastl at georepublic.de>
> Web: http://georepublic.info
>
>
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--
Cameron Shorter,
Software and Data Solutions Manager
LISAsoft
Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf,
26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009
P +61 2 9009 5000, W www.lisasoft.com, F +61 2 9009 5099
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