<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Surely there are circumstances where the board needs to have a private discussion? We elect the board and should trust them to judge when a discussion should take place “off list"<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I thought the board had a private mail group for those discussions? If that is the case, is there a difference between that list and loomio?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">All votes should be published so that the community knows what has been decided. The current +1,0,-1 to multiple motions across a long string of emails can’t be the best way of voting and communicating those votes.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div class="">
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; line-height: normal; border-spacing: 0px;">______<br class="">Steven<br class=""><br class=""></span>
</div>
<br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 15 Sep 2016, at 05:18, <a href="mailto:board-request@lists.osgeo.org" class="">board-request@lists.osgeo.org</a> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">Send Board mailing list submissions to<br class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><a href="mailto:board@lists.osgeo.org" class="">board@lists.osgeo.org</a><br class=""><br class="">To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/board<br class="">or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>board-request@lists.osgeo.org<br class=""><br class="">You can reach the person managing the list at<br class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>board-owner@lists.osgeo.org<br class=""><br class="">When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br class="">than "Re: Contents of Board digest..."<br class="">Today's Topics:<br class=""><br class=""> 1. feedback on Loomio (Jeff McKenna)<br class=""> 2. Re: feedback on Loomio (Vincent Picavet (ml))<br class=""> 3. Re: feedback on Loomio (Helena Mitasova)<br class=""> 4. Re: feedback on Loomio (Venkatesh Raghavan)<br class=""><br class=""><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif; color:rgba(127, 127, 127, 1.0);" class=""><b class="">From: </b></span><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">Jeff McKenna <jmckenna@gatewaygeomatics.com><br class=""></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif; color:rgba(127, 127, 127, 1.0);" class=""><b class="">Subject: </b></span><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">[Board] feedback on Loomio</b><br class=""></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif; color:rgba(127, 127, 127, 1.0);" class=""><b class="">Date: </b></span><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">14 September 2016 at 21:05:24 BST<br class=""></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif; color:rgba(127, 127, 127, 1.0);" class=""><b class="">To: </b></span><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">OSGeo Board <board@lists.osgeo.org><br class=""></span></div><br class=""><br class="">Hi OSGeo Board,<br class=""><br class="">I would like to give some outside feedback, or from someone who was on the board for almost 7 years. I believe the board is examining Loomio for a few weeks, and I just want to provide some initial feedback.<br class=""><br class="">I know, I must sit back and let technology and innovation and people grow, in OSGeo, but I was surprised to notice today that I cannot receive email notifications and easily follow and join, what has always been Open discussions for voting at the OSGeo Board level, any longer because voting is now managed in a closed Loomio system.<br class=""><br class="">Background<br class="">----------<br class=""><br class="">Before anyone gets upset at me for being so close-minded to change, I should say that I have been involved in the formation of the QGIS.ORG legal entity since its beginning, and I fully support that organization (Tim and others invited me to edit their initial documents and provide input on its formation). I do realize that Loomio is being successfully used by the QGIS.ORG Board.<br class=""><br class=""><br class="">Discussion<br class="">----------<br class=""><br class="">The Loomio "OSGeo Board" group requires an account, and also surprisingly it requires you to apply to 'join' the group discussion. Yes, I am aware that I can visibly see the discussion by clicking on the Loomio discussion link; but remember, OSGeo Board discussions are done in the open and have always been very easy to follow through this mailing list. Now though, with Loomio, important discussions are occurring on a system that only 9 people (the board members) have privileges to both post a comment or receive email notifications. I actually assumed Loomio would somehow be used to log voting, but all voting would still be displayed on the OSGeo Board list, and all discussions would occur on the Board list.<br class=""><br class="">Sure, Loomio offers nice charts and fancy tools, and votes are logged, but since discussion is closed that really defeats the purpose.<br class=""><br class="">Again, it might be great for the QGIS.ORG entity, but for OSGeo where we have always tried to be so open and transparent, Loomio appears to me to be a sudden change in the foundation's thinking.<br class=""><br class="">Conclusion<br class="">----------<br class=""><br class="">I believe the OSGeo Board is still experimenting with Loomio, but I wanted to give you my thoughts today, as I was surprised to find how difficult it is to follow voting discussions now.<br class=""><br class="">Maybe there is a way or a hook so that all discussions and messages on Loomio are posted right away to this mailing list, so Loomio can be used to record voting but have discussions still occur in the open. Not sure.<br class=""><br class="">I just think my impressions might be useful, as I tried to follow today's discussions. (yes, still do, always have, on each of OSGeo's 200-ish mailing lists ha)<br class=""><br class="">thanks,<br class=""><br class="">-jeff<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif; color:rgba(127, 127, 127, 1.0);" class=""><b class="">From: </b></span><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">"Vincent Picavet (ml)" <vincent.ml@oslandia.com><br class=""></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif; color:rgba(127, 127, 127, 1.0);" class=""><b class="">Subject: </b></span><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">Re: [Board] feedback on Loomio</b><br class=""></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif; color:rgba(127, 127, 127, 1.0);" class=""><b class="">Date: </b></span><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">14 September 2016 at 21:33:40 BST<br class=""></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif; color:rgba(127, 127, 127, 1.0);" class=""><b class="">To: </b></span><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">Jeff McKenna <jmckenna@gatewaygeomatics.com>, OSGeo Board <board@lists.osgeo.org><br class=""></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif; color:rgba(127, 127, 127, 1.0);" class=""><b class="">Reply-To: </b></span><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">vincent.ml@oslandia.com<br class=""></span></div><br class=""><br class="">Hi,<br class=""><br class="">On 14/09/2016 22:05, Jeff McKenna wrote:<br class="">[..]<br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class="">I know, I must sit back and let technology and innovation and people<br class="">grow, in OSGeo, but I was surprised to notice today that I cannot<br class="">receive email notifications and easily follow and join, what has always<br class="">been Open discussions for voting at the OSGeo Board level, any longer<br class="">because voting is now managed in a closed Loomio system.<br class=""></blockquote><br class="">I may start to be an old guy, but I do feel the same, and have been<br class="">feeling the same with QGIS.ORG way of doing things too.<br class=""><br class="">Thanks for raising the point.<br class="">Vincent<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><br class="">Background<br class="">----------<br class=""><br class="">Before anyone gets upset at me for being so close-minded to change, I<br class="">should say that I have been involved in the formation of the QGIS.ORG<br class="">legal entity since its beginning, and I fully support that organization<br class="">(Tim and others invited me to edit their initial documents and provide<br class="">input on its formation). I do realize that Loomio is being successfully<br class="">used by the QGIS.ORG Board.<br class=""><br class=""><br class="">Discussion<br class="">----------<br class=""><br class="">The Loomio "OSGeo Board" group requires an account, and also<br class="">surprisingly it requires you to apply to 'join' the group discussion.<br class="">Yes, I am aware that I can visibly see the discussion by clicking on the<br class="">Loomio discussion link; but remember, OSGeo Board discussions are done<br class="">in the open and have always been very easy to follow through this<br class="">mailing list. Now though, with Loomio, important discussions are<br class="">occurring on a system that only 9 people (the board members) have<br class="">privileges to both post a comment or receive email notifications. I<br class="">actually assumed Loomio would somehow be used to log voting, but all<br class="">voting would still be displayed on the OSGeo Board list, and all<br class="">discussions would occur on the Board list.<br class=""><br class="">Sure, Loomio offers nice charts and fancy tools, and votes are logged,<br class="">but since discussion is closed that really defeats the purpose.<br class=""><br class="">Again, it might be great for the QGIS.ORG entity, but for OSGeo where we<br class="">have always tried to be so open and transparent, Loomio appears to me to<br class="">be a sudden change in the foundation's thinking.<br class=""><br class="">Conclusion<br class="">----------<br class=""><br class="">I believe the OSGeo Board is still experimenting with Loomio, but I<br class="">wanted to give you my thoughts today, as I was surprised to find how<br class="">difficult it is to follow voting discussions now.<br class=""><br class="">Maybe there is a way or a hook so that all discussions and messages on<br class="">Loomio are posted right away to this mailing list, so Loomio can be used<br class="">to record voting but have discussions still occur in the open. Not sure.<br class=""><br class="">I just think my impressions might be useful, as I tried to follow<br class="">today's discussions. (yes, still do, always have, on each of OSGeo's<br class="">200-ish mailing lists ha)<br class=""><br class="">thanks,<br class=""><br class="">-jeff<br class=""><br class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">Board mailing list<br class="">Board@lists.osgeo.org<br class="">http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/board<br class=""></blockquote><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif; color:rgba(127, 127, 127, 1.0);" class=""><b class="">From: </b></span><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">Helena Mitasova <hmitaso@ncsu.edu><br class=""></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif; color:rgba(127, 127, 127, 1.0);" class=""><b class="">Subject: </b></span><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">Re: [Board] feedback on Loomio</b><br class=""></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif; color:rgba(127, 127, 127, 1.0);" class=""><b class="">Date: </b></span><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">15 September 2016 at 04:28:01 BST<br class=""></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif; color:rgba(127, 127, 127, 1.0);" class=""><b class="">To: </b></span><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">vincent.ml@oslandia.com<br class=""></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif; color:rgba(127, 127, 127, 1.0);" class=""><b class="">Cc: </b></span><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">Jeff McKenna <jmckenna@gatewaygeomatics.com>, OSGeo Board <board@lists.osgeo.org><br class=""></span></div><br class=""><br class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">I have mixed feelings about Loomio too - maybe we should give it few more weeks and then decide <div class="">whether it i suitable for OSGeo board or not, Helena</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 2:33 PM, Vincent Picavet (ml) <span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:vincent.ml@oslandia.com" target="_blank" class="">vincent.ml@oslandia.com</a>></span> wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi,<br class="">
<br class="">
On 14/09/2016 22:05, Jeff McKenna wrote:<br class="">
[..]<br class="">
> I know, I must sit back and let technology and innovation and people<br class="">
> grow, in OSGeo, but I was surprised to notice today that I cannot<br class="">
> receive email notifications and easily follow and join, what has always<br class="">
> been Open discussions for voting at the OSGeo Board level, any longer<br class="">
> because voting is now managed in a closed Loomio system.<br class="">
<br class="">
I may start to be an old guy, but I do feel the same, and have been<br class="">
feeling the same with <a href="http://qgis.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">QGIS.ORG</a> way of doing things too.<br class="">
<br class="">
Thanks for raising the point.<br class="">
Vincent<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
><br class="">
> Background<br class="">
> ----------<br class="">
><br class="">
> Before anyone gets upset at me for being so close-minded to change, I<br class="">
> should say that I have been involved in the formation of the <a href="http://qgis.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">QGIS.ORG</a><br class="">
> legal entity since its beginning, and I fully support that organization<br class="">
> (Tim and others invited me to edit their initial documents and provide<br class="">
> input on its formation). I do realize that Loomio is being successfully<br class="">
> used by the <a href="http://qgis.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">QGIS.ORG</a> Board.<br class="">
><br class="">
><br class="">
> Discussion<br class="">
> ----------<br class="">
><br class="">
> The Loomio "OSGeo Board" group requires an account, and also<br class="">
> surprisingly it requires you to apply to 'join' the group discussion.<br class="">
> Yes, I am aware that I can visibly see the discussion by clicking on the<br class="">
> Loomio discussion link; but remember, OSGeo Board discussions are done<br class="">
> in the open and have always been very easy to follow through this<br class="">
> mailing list. Now though, with Loomio, important discussions are<br class="">
> occurring on a system that only 9 people (the board members) have<br class="">
> privileges to both post a comment or receive email notifications. I<br class="">
> actually assumed Loomio would somehow be used to log voting, but all<br class="">
> voting would still be displayed on the OSGeo Board list, and all<br class="">
> discussions would occur on the Board list.<br class="">
><br class="">
> Sure, Loomio offers nice charts and fancy tools, and votes are logged,<br class="">
> but since discussion is closed that really defeats the purpose.<br class="">
><br class="">
> Again, it might be great for the <a href="http://qgis.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">QGIS.ORG</a> entity, but for OSGeo where we<br class="">
> have always tried to be so open and transparent, Loomio appears to me to<br class="">
> be a sudden change in the foundation's thinking.<br class="">
><br class="">
> Conclusion<br class="">
> ----------<br class="">
><br class="">
> I believe the OSGeo Board is still experimenting with Loomio, but I<br class="">
> wanted to give you my thoughts today, as I was surprised to find how<br class="">
> difficult it is to follow voting discussions now.<br class="">
><br class="">
> Maybe there is a way or a hook so that all discussions and messages on<br class="">
> Loomio are posted right away to this mailing list, so Loomio can be used<br class="">
> to record voting but have discussions still occur in the open. Not sure.<br class="">
><br class="">
> I just think my impressions might be useful, as I tried to follow<br class="">
> today's discussions. (yes, still do, always have, on each of OSGeo's<br class="">
> 200-ish mailing lists ha)<br class="">
><br class="">
> thanks,<br class="">
><br class="">
> -jeff<br class="">
><br class="">
> ______________________________<wbr class="">_________________<br class="">
> Board mailing list<br class="">
> <a href="mailto:Board@lists.osgeo.org" class="">Board@lists.osgeo.org</a><br class="">
> <a href="http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/board" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">http://lists.osgeo.org/<wbr class="">mailman/listinfo/board</a><br class="">
<br class="">
______________________________<wbr class="">_________________<br class="">
Board mailing list<br class="">
<a href="mailto:Board@lists.osgeo.org" class="">Board@lists.osgeo.org</a><br class="">
<a href="http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/board" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">http://lists.osgeo.org/<wbr class="">mailman/listinfo/board</a></blockquote></div><br class=""><br clear="all" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div>-- <br class=""><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><span style="font-family:Helvetica" class=""><font size="1" class=""><div class="">Helena Mitasova</div><div class=""><div class="">Professor</div><div class="">Department of Marine, Earth and Atmospheric Sciences</div><div class="">North Carolina State University</div><div class="">1125 Jordan Hall</div><div class="">NCSU Box 8208</div><div class="">Raleigh, NC 27695-8208</div><div class=""><a href="http://www4.ncsu.edu/~hmitaso/" target="_blank" class="">http://www4.ncsu.edu/~hmitaso/</a></div><div class=""><a href="http://geospatial.ncsu.edu/" target="_blank" class="">http://geospatial.ncsu.edu/</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">email: <a href="mailto:hmitaso@ncsu.edu" target="_blank" class="">hmitaso@ncsu.edu</a></div><div class="">ph: 919-513-1327 (no voicemail)</div><div class="">fax 919 515-7802</div></div></font></span></div></div></div></div>
</div>
<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif; color:rgba(127, 127, 127, 1.0);" class=""><b class="">From: </b></span><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">Venkatesh Raghavan <raghavan@media.osaka-cu.ac.jp><br class=""></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif; color:rgba(127, 127, 127, 1.0);" class=""><b class="">Subject: </b></span><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">Re: [Board] feedback on Loomio</b><br class=""></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif; color:rgba(127, 127, 127, 1.0);" class=""><b class="">Date: </b></span><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">15 September 2016 at 05:18:31 BST<br class=""></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif; color:rgba(127, 127, 127, 1.0);" class=""><b class="">To: </b></span><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">OSGeo Board <board@lists.osgeo.org><br class=""></span></div><br class=""><br class="">
<meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv="Content-Type" class="">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000" class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi All,<br class="">
<br class="">
Thanks to Jeff and Vincent for expressing their concerns about<br class="">
the use of loomio for board discussions and voting.<br class="">
<br class="">
I am still learning the ropes of loomio. However, if there is no
way<br class="">
of setting loomio to receive comments from non-board members<br class="">
(without them having to appy to 'join' the discussions), it would
be<br class="">
better that all discussion take place on the board ML and loomio<br class="">
used only to record the voting.<br class="">
<br class="">
Best<br class="">
<br class="">
Venka<br class="">
<br class="">
On 2016/09/15 12:28, Helena Mitasova wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:CAKx0AATFnKMeZK4BTKf4WDTHeMEUZpBtda905PKKOJTQjrjXQw@mail.gmail.com" type="cite" class="">
<pre wrap="" class="">I have mixed feelings about Loomio too - maybe we should give it few more
weeks and then decide
whether it i suitable for OSGeo board or not, Helena
On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 2:33 PM, Vincent Picavet (ml) <
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vincent.ml@oslandia.com">vincent.ml@oslandia.com</a>> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<pre wrap="" class="">Hi,
On 14/09/2016 22:05, Jeff McKenna wrote:
[..]
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<pre wrap="" class="">I know, I must sit back and let technology and innovation and people
grow, in OSGeo, but I was surprised to notice today that I cannot
receive email notifications and easily follow and join, what has always
been Open discussions for voting at the OSGeo Board level, any longer
because voting is now managed in a closed Loomio system.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="" class="">I may start to be an old guy, but I do feel the same, and have been
feeling the same with QGIS.ORG way of doing things too.
Thanks for raising the point.
Vincent
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<pre wrap="" class="">Background
----------
Before anyone gets upset at me for being so close-minded to change, I
should say that I have been involved in the formation of the QGIS.ORG
legal entity since its beginning, and I fully support that organization
(Tim and others invited me to edit their initial documents and provide
input on its formation). I do realize that Loomio is being successfully
used by the QGIS.ORG Board.
Discussion
----------
The Loomio "OSGeo Board" group requires an account, and also
surprisingly it requires you to apply to 'join' the group discussion.
Yes, I am aware that I can visibly see the discussion by clicking on the
Loomio discussion link; but remember, OSGeo Board discussions are done
in the open and have always been very easy to follow through this
mailing list. Now though, with Loomio, important discussions are
occurring on a system that only 9 people (the board members) have
privileges to both post a comment or receive email notifications. I
actually assumed Loomio would somehow be used to log voting, but all
voting would still be displayed on the OSGeo Board list, and all
discussions would occur on the Board list.
Sure, Loomio offers nice charts and fancy tools, and votes are logged,
but since discussion is closed that really defeats the purpose.
Again, it might be great for the QGIS.ORG entity, but for OSGeo where we
have always tried to be so open and transparent, Loomio appears to me to
be a sudden change in the foundation's thinking.
Conclusion
----------
I believe the OSGeo Board is still experimenting with Loomio, but I
wanted to give you my thoughts today, as I was surprised to find how
difficult it is to follow voting discussions now.
Maybe there is a way or a hook so that all discussions and messages on
Loomio are posted right away to this mailing list, so Loomio can be used
to record voting but have discussions still occur in the open. Not
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<pre wrap="" class="">sure.
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<pre wrap="" class="">I just think my impressions might be useful, as I tried to follow
today's discussions. (yes, still do, always have, on each of OSGeo's
200-ish mailing lists ha)
thanks,
-jeff
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