<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>All,</div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><br></div><div id="AppleMailSignature">From a communications point of view:</div><div id="AppleMailSignature">- OSGeo is far better off celebrating and promoting successes</div><div id="AppleMailSignature">- if 'projects in incubation' have gained more traction by/value from that previous badge, I am interested in learning so</div><div id="AppleMailSignature">- if no value has been derived, it is time to try something new...even success is not guaranteed</div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><br></div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><br>Kind regards,<br><div>Marc Vloemans</div><div><br></div></div><div><br>Op 2 aug. 2017 om 18:46 heeft Jody Garnett <<a href="mailto:jody.garnett@gmail.com">jody.garnett@gmail.com</a>> het volgende geschreven:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr">I think I have also (with a bit of help) clearly state my view.<div><br></div><div>Venka with due respect I will be guided by feedback form the incubation list and the projects in incubation on this.</div><div><br></div><div>Thank you for this discussion.</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div>--</div><div>Jody Garnett</div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On 2 August 2017 at 06:43, Venkatesh Raghavan <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:raghavan@media.osaka-cu.ac.jp" target="_blank">raghavan@media.osaka-cu.ac.jp</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I think, I have repeated my stand and clearly stated my views.<br>
<br>
The only way I see out of the present situation is to rollback<br>
and continue with the three category model including<br>
"OSGeo Project", "OSGeo Project in Incubation" and<br>
"OSGeo Community (Project)". This will be a entail<br>
redesign of three logos at [1] to celebrate the great work<br>
being done in under the above three categories.<br>
<br>
Any change in project categorization would entail a vote<br>
from the board and consultation with PSC (especially<br>
for the projects presently under incubation).<br>
<br>
I am loaded with work at the university and will be<br>
slow in communication till next 2 weeks.<br>
<br>
Wish you all a great time at FOSS4G-Boston.<br>
<br>
Best<br>
<br>
Venka<br>
<br>
[1] <a href="https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/OSGeo_Community_Projects#Comparison_with_Incubation" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/OS<wbr>Geo_Community_Projects#Compari<wbr>son_with_Incubation</a><div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
On 8/2/2017 8:46 AM, Jody Garnett wrote:<br>
</div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div class="h5">
Thanks Cameron, you are doing a better job of communicating this one then<br>
me.<br>
<br>
Venkas observation is valid - that it is a surprise to PSC members (and<br>
board members) that a "Project in Incubation" badge is not available. As<br>
committee chair it is my responsible to communicate with the board, I tend<br>
to focus significant items - like the recent graduation.<br>
<br>
For incubation you touch on an important idea - that the incubation process<br>
is there to help the project teams improve. Any advertising or visibility<br>
benefit is a distraction from this goal (and in some cases has proved<br>
harmful).<br>
<br>
I also want to focus on the new OSGeo Community project category - it is an<br>
exciting idea that allows OSGeo to support and promote far more software<br>
projects. If we have project teams being disappointed about taking part as<br>
a community project it may serve to discourage involvement and outreach.<br>
<br>
The conversation with Helena is also important - the commitment of the<br>
project teams should be acknowledged. One of our foundation goals, to<br>
increase participation, was to do a better job of celebrating<br>
participation. Having project teams being proud of their participation and<br>
commitment is a good thing - so if a badge can help acknowledge this fact<br>
then it may yet serve a purpose.<br>
<br>
Finally we have mounting reports of projects not staying on target with<br>
respect osgeo project expectations. This is a responsibility that should be<br>
debated at the board level, leaving board members (myself included) a<br>
pressing matter to attend to - see meeting minuets for action items:<br>
<a href="https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Face_to_Face_Meeting_Paris_2017#3._OSGeo_project_status" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Fa<wbr>ce_to_Face_Meeting_Paris_2017#<wbr>3._OSGeo_project_status</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
Jody Garnett<br>
<br>
On 1 August 2017 at 14:17, Cameron Shorter <<a href="mailto:cameron.shorter@gmail.com" target="_blank">cameron.shorter@gmail.com</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div class="h5">
OSGeo Board,<br>
<br>
Re: the level of advertising provided to projects in incubation.<br>
<br>
I'm concerned that a board member has requested a concept about incubation<br>
be taken to the Board email list, rather than Board members with an opinion<br>
offering to join and help the incubation list.<br>
<br>
I'm concerned for a number of reasons:<br>
<br>
1. The OSGeo Incubation committee has had problems getting projects to<br>
move through incubation, which is significantly sucking up volunteer<br>
resources. This was/is a significant problem threatening the effectiveness<br>
of incubation. After much debate on the incubation list, it was resolved<br>
collectively and transparently that reducing the advertising value of<br>
"being in incubation" would provide encouragement for projects to keep<br>
moving through.<br>
<br>
2. Board members are welcome to join OSGeo committees are contribute to<br>
conversations. The time to comment on incubation issues is when it is being<br>
debated at the committee level. Note, that opinions hold much greater<br>
weight if they are backed up by the commitment to implement the opinion.<br>
This is the principle of a Do-ocracy.<br>
<br>
3. If the board wishes to enable their communities, they should trust the<br>
communities and back the community decisions. Over-riding decisions of a<br>
community at a higher level is a significant demotivator. It is a<br>
dis-empowerment of communities and will long term lead to the<br>
dis-engagement of communities.<br>
<br>
4. The recent conversation thread on the board list has not offered a<br>
solution as to how to solve the incubation committee problem of projects<br>
not progressing to completion. Note, a suggestion along the lines of<br>
"someone else should do ..." doesn't count as a solution.<br>
<br>
--<br>
<br>
With regards to the level of advertising we give to "OSGeo Projects in<br>
Incubation", I agree with the Incubation committee's decision (as explained<br>
by Jody), that we should reduce the value provided by "being in incubation"<br>
which increases the value of "being incubated".<br>
<br>
We should be helping new users find quality incubated projects. You can<br>
think of it as a quality star rating if you like. Advertising that a<br>
project is "in incubation" implies a level of quality that has not yet been<br>
earned.<br>
<br>
Warm regards, Cameron<br>
<br>
On 2/8/17 2:24 am, Jody Garnett wrote:<br>
<br>
On 1 August 2017 at 09:07, Venkatesh Raghavan <<br>
<a href="mailto:raghavan@media.osaka-cu.ac.jp" target="_blank">raghavan@media.osaka-cu.ac.jp</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
On 8/2/2017 12:51 AM, Jody Garnett wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Venka they are visible as community projects on the website and our<br>
promotion.<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
Jody Community projects and "projects in incubation" were different and<br>
are listed<br>
as such on our present website. The decision to put them together (as a<br>
part of<br>
re-branding) was neither informed to or approved by the board.<br>
<br>
All project in incubation can display on their project leaflet and<br>
website they<br>
they are striving to graduate as an OSGeo project and undergoing our<br>
software vetting process.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Joining incubation reflects on the project team and their wishes, their<br>
commitment as a team to the OSGeo community.<br>
<br>
The branding associated with OSGeo Project reflects the result. The<br>
branding associated with OSGeo community also reflects a result.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Venka is there any reason for projects that are in our incubation process<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
to be considered for more visibility then our community projects?<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
Jody I never talked about more visibility or less. I said that Project in<br>
Incubation<br>
must be shown as such with appropriate logo.<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
And I am asking you to consider why - what are you trying to communicate<br>
with an Incubation logo and to whom?<br>
<br>
aside: "Incubation" logo, "Project in Incubation" would be too long,<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Why? Because they are taking steps to graduate as OSGeo projects and<br>
because<br>
that is how it was before changes were made without information or<br>
approval from the board.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
We can discuss the responsibilities of the incubation committee and of the<br>
board if you like.<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Even the PSC of project under incubation were not informed about this.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Venka you are appealing to process - as such we can always do a better job<br>
communicating it is true:<br>
a) I have started this email thread here with the board<br>
b) I have started an email thread on the incubation list to communicate<br>
with project teams<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
--<br>
Jody Garnett<br>
<br>
On 1 August 2017 at 08:49, Venkatesh Raghavan <<br>
<a href="mailto:raghavan@media.osaka-cu.ac.jp" target="_blank">raghavan@media.osaka-cu.ac.jp</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
wrote:<br>
....<br>
On 8/2/2017 12:44 AM, Jody Garnett wrote:<br>
<br>
Any change from previous categorization would require the approval<br>
of the board. I do not recall when such a change was decided and<br>
how it was approved.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
The categorization has not changed, these projects are part of the<br>
incubation process.<br>
<br>
Then let us continue to use the "OSGeo Incubation logo" and provide<br>
visibility to our projects in incubation.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Board mailing <a href="mailto:listBoard@lists.osgeo.orghttps">listBoard@lists.osgeo.orghttps</a><wbr>://<br>
<a href="http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/board" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listin<wbr>fo/board</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Board mailing <a href="mailto:listBoard@lists.osgeo.orghttps">listBoard@lists.osgeo.orghttps</a><wbr>://<a href="http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/board" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">lists.osgeo.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/board</a><br>
<br>
<br></div></div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
--<br>
Cameron Shorter<br>
M <a href="tel:%2B61%20419%20142%20254" value="+61419142254" target="_blank">+61 419 142 254</a> <+61%20419%20142%20254><br>
<br>
<br>
</font></span></blockquote></blockquote><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5">
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Board mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Board@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">Board@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/board" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailma<wbr>n/listinfo/board</a></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
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