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<p>Adding one more comment: Please, I implore you: Do not remove the
assumption of good faith from OSGeo's principles! <br>
</p>
<p>"Assumption of good faith" and "Quietening down somebody" are
totally different things. In her blog on thebias.com Annalee
somewhat hastily mixes the two up when she says: <br>
</p>
<p><span style="font-weight:400;">"The harm is that telling people
to “assume good intent” is a sign that if they come to you with
a concern, you will minimize their feelings, police their
reactions, and question their perceptions."</span></p>
<p>OSGeo and any open and welcoming community cannot exist without
assumption of good faith. The opposite to assuming good faith is
perfect paranoia which is only destructive. It is also quite
impossible to set up rules to regulate everything without
suffocating. So let us talk and interact as best we can from all
our gender, cultural and individual background. If it starts to
get out of hand - and this will happen again - look at it closely,
have concerned people on a functioning CoC and repair the damage.
<br>
</p>
<p>Unfortunately I have not followed the issue which Sara Safawi
indicated as her reason to want to leave OSGeo closely enough to
be able to understand all the intricacies. But it actually did not
feel good, even from a distance. Maybe a functioning CoC could
have helped? People on a CoC have to take every complaint serious
<span style="font-weight:400;">(reverse citing Annalee)</span>: Do
not "<span style="font-weight:400;">minimize their feelings,
police their reactions, and question their perceptions". <br>
</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight:400;">And lastly, sometimes it is also
time to let things go. If Sara has no intention of picking this
</span><span style="font-weight:400;"><span
style="font-weight:400;">up again</span> we may want to let it
rest. <br>
</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight:400;"><br>
</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight:400;">Thanks,</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight:400;">Seven<br>
</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight:400;"><br>
</span></p>
<p>Am 11.12.18 um 02:09 schrieb Daniel Morissette:</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:e13c0eb3-056e-183f-a3b9-14eae8b1027e@mapgears.com">I
agree with Jonathan here. I also have my own similar personal
story from ~20 years ago where I used a French expression as the
opening line in an email where all the rest was in English... and
some of the recipients (co-workers) could very rightly have been
offended. Actually some wondered if I might have been mad at them,
but instead of jumping the gun, they asked me directly, I
explained the meaning of the French expression and why I used it
in this context, they explained that there was a corresponding
slang word... that day they learned a new French expression and I
learned a new word of English slang. I was not being careless, I
simply had no way to know at the time that there was a
corresponding English slang word that could have been offending,
because I am not a native English speaker.
<br>
<br>
We all had a good laugh in the end, but if it was not for their
assumption of good faith this could have turned into a huge mess.
<br>
<br>
I realize that not everybody will agree and I am not planning to
enter this CoC debate... I just wanted to relay an experience.
<br>
<br>
Stepping out of this thread now.
<br>
<br>
Daniel
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 2018-12-10 7:44 p.m., Jonathan Moules wrote:
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Hi Maria,
<br>
<br>
Just a thought, but I'm not sure getting rid of the assumption
of good faith is a good idea. To do so would be basically
assuming people are guilty until proven innocent which runs
counter to how these things should work.
<br>
<br>
To use a personal anecdote, many years ago I had a black
flatmate who I was joking around with and I made a comment that
it turns out is a negative racial epithet. Being young and
unworldly, I didn't know that at the time and certainly didn't
mean it in that context, it also has a perfectly innocent
context - the only one I'd ever been exposed to - which is how I
was using it.
<br>
<br>
Now, reading your thebias.com link, I can see that the author
there would suggest I be pilloried for what was an honest
mistake. They'd say I was being "careless" or "ignorant" and
stepping on their toes. But I don't think either is fair because
it's not reasonable to expect people to know everything that
could offend everyone, especially somewhere as multicultural as
the internet.
<br>
<br>
For example, consider this symbol: 👍a simple thumbs-up emoticon
that's commonly used to signify "it's all good" and "thanks".
Well, it turns out that it's "an obscene insult" in some
cultures! I didn't know that until a few seconds ago when I went
searching for a simple example.
<br>
<br>
I have learnt over the years from experiences in both directions
that it's best to always assume good faith if possible. Humans
may be the species with the most complex communication on the
planet, but that doesn't mean we don't fail often.
<br>
<br>
@Ben - Thanks for sharing World Human Rights day. I'm a long
time fan of the UNDHR!
<br>
<br>
Cheers,
<br>
Jonathan
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 2018-12-09 12:49, María Arias de Reyna wrote:
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Dear OSGeo community,
<br>
<br>
As you may already know, I have been working for the last
months in improving our community procedures[1] to make it a
safer space. Recent events in the community have shown that we
have a lot of work ahead.
<br>
<br>
We all, as OSGeo, must remove the recent bullying and
campaigning mentality that is unfortunately gradually become a
part of our culture. Disclosing private data or hinting
threats is not helpful and can only make our community less
comfortable for everyone. We will work on improving actions on
harmful behavior.
<br>
<br>
This has been a slow task, but there are some actions taking
place:
<br>
<br>
CoC committee members have become inactive. I volunteered to
pick up the task and lead a new CoC committee. Right now I am
the only CoC member, but I am looking for more volunteers. If
only, to make sure that if I am involved in any CoC incident,
someone else can take care of it properly as mediator.
<br>
<br>
I want to change also the way incidents and violations of the
CoC are reported. I noticed there are reports being done on
person and on private email, but never through the official
channels (which right now is a mailing list).To improve this,
I will ask the SAC to replace the mailing list with an alias
and a form on the website. Also, there will be a public list
of who receives those emails so people reporting incidents
will have a clear understanding of who is receiving the
information and decide to contact privately only a subset of
the team. Replacing the mailing list by an alias that sends
the data directly to the inbox of the CoC team is important,
as sometimes incidents are not reported just because the
person reporting is scared to leave a trace of the report or
is not sure who will be reading the report.
<br>
<br>
Another action I am going to propose is a change on the CoC
itself. Our community has grown a lot both in diversity and in
numbers, and we need a strict code of conduct that makes sure
marginalized or harrased people is always covered by it. We
can't rely anymore on just common sense and good faith.
<br>
<br>
Once the new board is settled, I am going to propose to change
the current CoC for another like the Contributor Covenant[2].
As it is a CoC shared by many communities, this has the
advantage of receiving the upgrades and experience from other
communities. As you can see, it fixes some of the bugs from
our CoC, like the assuming good intent and good faith[3] part
that made the current CoC useless on most cases. I will
propose to add some foreword to adapt to specifities for our
community, but in my opinion, the latest version of the
Contributor Covenant is easy to read, simple, and cover most
of what we need. My hope is that this new CoC can be adapted
to all OSGeo Projects and Events that don't already have a
CoC, so we have full OSGeo universe covered by default.
<br>
<br>
I hope this actions will prove useful in the medium term and
we don't have to see more members leaving the community. We
should remember to be empathic and kind. We are all seeking
the same goals and we should encourage cooperation, not hinder
each other. I know that developer communities are very used to
these bad behaviours, but I'm confident we can grow better.
<br>
<br>
Have a nice day!
<br>
María.
<br>
<br>
<br>
[1]
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/board/2018-August/011640.html">https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/board/2018-August/011640.html</a>
<br>
[2] <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.contributor-covenant.org/">https://www.contributor-covenant.org/</a>
<br>
[3]
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://thebias.com/2017/09/26/how-good-intent-undermines-diversity-and-inclusion/">https://thebias.com/2017/09/26/how-good-intent-undermines-diversity-and-inclusion/</a><br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________
<br>
Discuss mailing list
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Discuss@lists.osgeo.org">Discuss@lists.osgeo.org</a>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________
<br>
Discuss mailing list
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Discuss@lists.osgeo.org">Discuss@lists.osgeo.org</a>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
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