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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">I'd like to hear thoughts from people
      who organise FOSS4G regional events about the two year global /
      regional / global rotation.<br>
      <br>
      In particular, would large regional conferences such as FOSS4G-NA
      or FOSS4G-EU or FOSS4G-CEE be interested in only holding events
      every second year?<br>
      <br>
      <br>
      On 16/04/2013 9:46 PM, Bart van den Eijnden wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote cite="mid:8F97AC48-5F1D-41AC-9A63-F9255D7FA9D3@osgis.nl"
      type="cite">
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      I think Barend's suggestion of a two year scheme (regional in year
      X, global in year Y) deserves some more discussion / attention.
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>Personally I can see the benefits of this scheme (no big
        competition from large regional conferences in the global year).<br>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Also, does OsGeo currently get money out of the big
          regional conferences (such as FOSS4G-CEE and FOSS4G-NA)?<br>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>Best regards,</div>
          <div>Bart</div>
          <div><br>
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                Bart van den Eijnden<br>
                OSGIS - <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://osgis.nl">http://osgis.nl</a></span>
            </div>
            <br>
            <div>
              <div>On Apr 15, 2013, at 11:34 AM, <a
                  moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:b.j.kobben@utwente.nl">b.j.kobben@utwente.nl</a>
                wrote:</div>
              <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
              <blockquote type="cite">Hia ll,<br>
                <br>
                I am not a board member nor a conference committee
                member, but I feel an<br>
                urgent need to give my opinion here.<br>
                <br>
                I grow uncomfortable by some of the trends that seem to
                "logically follow"<br>
                (note the quotes, and yes I am exaggerating on purpose)
                from this<br>
                discussion:<br>
                1)- FOSS4G events are there to make money<br>
                2)- non NA/Europe events don't make (enough) money<br>
                3)- non NA/Europe events get badly organized (see
                Beijng)<br>
                <br>
                Proposition 1 already makes me feel itchy. How can you
                'charge' FOSS4G<br>
                main event organizers with being a cash cow ("expecting
                a $50K profit") if<br>
                at the same time encouraging (allowing?) other events to
                be organised that<br>
                almost certainly will cannabilise the main event
                (Foss4G-NA, FOSS4g CEE)<br>
                on which events you put no obligation to make money? I
                think we need a<br>
                two-year cycle: one year the main conference and other
                years regional ones<br>
                (i.e. ones actively supported by OSGEO "central", what
                the regional<br>
                chapters do on their own is their own responsibility).<br>
                <br>
                Proposition 2 is touching a nerve because I work at an
                institute that is<br>
                about capacity building for lesser developed countries.
                I think part of<br>
                OSGEO is promoting the use of FOSS, and bringing
                knowledge and experience<br>
                and enthousiasm about that to the places in the world
                that would profit<br>
                most from it is a good cause that is worth doing even if
                it brings you<br>
                less or no money. By all means subsidize the LDC
                meetings with profits<br>
                from the Europe/NA ones. Call me a specialist, but I
                prefer some<br>
                solidarity in this...<br>
                <br>
                Proposition 3 is plain not true. The South Africa FOSS4G
                was excellent in<br>
                my opinion, the Beijng one failed because of
                insufficient control<br>
                mechanisms (either in place or just not followed up on)
                to check on a<br>
                local organisation that chooses to do its own thing
                completely independent<br>
                of 'OSGEO central'. Could have happened with
                self-centered stubborn Dutch<br>
                organizers just as well, and certainly at least part of
                the blame should<br>
                be on the 'OSGEO central' shoulders...<br>
                <br>
                Yours truly,<br>
                <br>
                --<br>
                Barend Köbben <br>
                Senior Lecturer, ITC - University of Twente,<br>
                Faculty of Geo-Information Science and Earth Observation<br>
                PO Box 217, 7500AE Enschede (The Netherlands)<br>
                <br>
                <br>
                <br>
                <br>
                On 13-04-13 14:30, "Cameron Shorter" <<a
                  moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:cameron.shorter@gmail.com">cameron.shorter@gmail.com</a>>
                wrote:<br>
                <br>
                <blockquote type="cite">Frank,<br>
                  I agree that a compelling proposal should include
                  meeting foss4g<br>
                  financial expectations.<br>
                  <br>
                  For the record, the last board meeting discussed
                  changing guidelines for<br>
                  foss4g budgets from expecting a $20K profit under
                  conservative estimates,<br>
                  to a $50K profit. (This would typically result in a
                  $100K+ profit under<br>
                  expected conditions).<br>
                  <br>
                  David Bitner, pointed out that a $100K profit spread
                  across 1000<br>
                  attendees equates to $100 extra per delegate, which is
                  a good point, but<br>
                  should be tempered against the variability of FOSS4G
                  attendees, and the<br>
                  high impact on profits this has. Looking back at<br>
                  an old foss4g budget, I extrapolated some profit
                  figures:<br>
                  <br>
                  Attendees: Profit<br>
                  1000: $58K<br>
                  900: $35K<br>
                  800: $11K<br>
                  700: -$11K<br>
                  600: -$35K<br>
                  500: -$58K<br>
                  <br>
                  While I made some gross generalisations in my
                  extrapolation, the take<br>
                  home message is that fixed costs of a large conference
                  such as FOSS4G are<br>
                  very high, and consequently, a small percentage
                  increase or decrease in<br>
                  attendance has high impact on profitability.<br>
                  So if we want to ensure a worst case scenario of 500
                  delegates will break<br>
                  even, then we should expect to make a $110K profit for
                  an expected<br>
                  attendance of 1000.<br>
                  <br>
                  On 13/04/13 08:10, Frank Warmerdam wrote:<br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  Cameron,<br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  I feel this question ties into the expected revenue to
                  some degree.  I'm<br>
                  personally fine with your suggestion with the caveat
                  that we should<br>
                  expect a "compelling proposal" to meet our revenue
                  generation guidelines<br>
                  which is (IMHO) going to be hard<br>
                  to do if aim for $50K revenue in the conservative
                  case.<br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  I'm also fairly flexible on this who issue, but I
                  *feel* like every time<br>
                  we have a revenue discussion we come up with one set
                  of conclusions, but<br>
                  somehow we fail to actually apply those conclusion
                  when setting<br>
                  requirements for the conference.<br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  Best regards,<br>
                  Frank<br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 2:24 PM, Cameron Shorter<br>
                  <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:cameron.shorter@gmail.com">cameron.shorter@gmail.com</a>>
                  wrote:<br>
                  <br>
                  In the last board meeting, the question was raised
                  about global FOSS4G<br>
                  rotation.<br>
                  <br>
                  we currently have a 3 way rotation policy: Europe 2013
                  / North America<br>
                  2014 / Rest of world 2015<br>
                  <br>
                  It has been suggested that we should revisit this
                  rotation policy, and<br>
                  consider:<br>
                  <br>
                  Europe / North America / Europe / North America<br>
                  <br>
                  Reasons:<br>
                  * Previous global FOSS4G events have attracted more
                  people and been more<br>
                  lucrative in Europe / North America<br>
                  * Europe/North America could be argued to be less
                  financially risky. Our<br>
                  one cancelled FOSS4G was in China in 2012.<br>
                  * FOSS4G (global and regional) events traditionally
                  draw half their<br>
                  attendance from the local region. Europe and North
                  America both have<br>
                  large populations with established OSGeo communities.<br>
                  <br>
                  I'm in favour of continuing our current 3 way
                  rotation, on the proviso<br>
                  that there are proven OSGeo communities outside of
                  NA/Europe. By proven,<br>
                  I'd suggest that we would consider regions which have
                  already<br>
                  successfully staged a FOSS4G regional event (or
                  similar)<br>
                  and who can put together a compelling justification
                  that they can<br>
                  attract comparable attendees and sponsors to
                  Europe/North America.<br>
                  <br>
                  Looking at: <br>
                  <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Live_GIS_History">http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Live_GIS_History</a><br>
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Live_GIS_History"><http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Live_GIS_History></a><br>
                  I see that there have previously been regional FOSS4G
                  events in:<br>
                  Argentina<br>
                  India<br>
                  Korea<br>
                  Malaysia<br>
                  Japan<br>
                  <br>
                  So for 2015, I'd suggest that our FOSS4G pre
                  qualification should invite<br>
                  responses from "rest of the world" and Europe, but we
                  should give a<br>
                  preference to "rest of world" assuming they can
                  provide a compelling<br>
                  proposal which is likely to attract similar success<br>
                  to past European and North American conferences.<br>
                  <br>
                  Generalising the rule. Our rotation policy should be:<br>
                  <br>
                  * We give a strong preference to a region which hasn't
                  had FOSS4G for 2<br>
                  years<br>
                  * We next consider the region which had FOSS4G 2 years
                  ago<br>
                  * Only as a last resort would we consider a region
                  which had FOSS4G last<br>
                  year<br>
                  <br>
                  Regions are considered as: Europe / North America /
                  Other locations<br>
                  <br>
                  -- <br>
                  Cameron Shorter<br>
                  Geospatial Solutions Manager<br>
                  Tel: <br>
                  +61 (0)2 8570 5050
                  <tel:%2B61%20%280%292%208570%205050><br>
                  Mob: <br>
                  +61 (0)419 142 254
                  <tel:%2B61%20%280%29419%20142%20254><br>
                  <br>
                  Think Globally, Fix Locally<br>
                  Geospatial Solutions enhanced with Open Standards and
                  Open Source<br>
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.lisasoft.com">http://www.lisasoft.com</a><br>
                  <br>
                  _______________________________________________<br>
                  Board mailing list<br>
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Board@lists.osgeo.org">Board@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/board">http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/board</a><br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  -- <br>
---------------------------------------+----------------------------------<br>
                  ----<br>
                  I set the clouds in motion - turn up   | Frank
                  Warmerdam,<br>
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:warmerdam@pobox.com">warmerdam@pobox.com</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:warmerdam@pobox.com"><mailto:warmerdam@pobox.com></a><br>
                  light and sound - activate the windows |<br>
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://pobox.com/~warmerdam">http://pobox.com/~warmerdam</a>
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://pobox.com/%7Ewarmerdam"><http://pobox.com/%7Ewarmerdam></a><br>
                  and watch the world go round - Rush    | Geospatial
                  Software Developer<br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  -- <br>
                  Cameron Shorter<br>
                  Geospatial Solutions Manager<br>
                  Tel: +61 (0)2 8570 5050<br>
                  Mob: +61 (0)419 142 254<br>
                  <br>
                  Think Globally, Fix Locally<br>
                  Geospatial Solutions enhanced with Open Standards and
                  Open Source<br>
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.lisasoft.com">http://www.lisasoft.com</a><br>
                </blockquote>
                <br>
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              </blockquote>
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</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
Cameron Shorter
Geospatial Solutions Manager
Tel: +61 (0)2 8570 5050
Mob: +61 (0)419 142 254

Think Globally, Fix Locally
Geospatial Solutions enhanced with Open Standards and Open Source
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.lisasoft.com">http://www.lisasoft.com</a>
</pre>
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