<div dir="ltr"><br><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 3:01 AM, Steven Feldman <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:shfeldman@gmail.com" target="_blank">shfeldman@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">When we bid we were concerned about regional events impacting attendance at the big one inn Nottingham this year. <div>

<br></div><div>this year we have a NA and  CEE event as well as FOSS4G. Everyone has reassured us that they have little or no impact, I am not so confident in a time of economic pressure but only time will tell. </div><div>

<br></div><div>It is difficult to be precise about cannibalisation by regional events unless we survey the delegates at these two regional events and ask them whether they plan to also attend Nottingham and if not whether they would have considered Nottingham if there had not been a regional event. Is that worth doing?<br>

</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div style><br></div><div style>Regarding regional events I would make a difference between events that are mainly in English language or some other language.</div><div style>For example the German FOSSGIS or the Japanese FOSS4G wouldn't really attract an audience, that doesn't speak German or Japanese. Same for regional events in Spanish or French. These local events are important, because lot of people prefer to hear (or give) presentations in their native language.</div>

<div style>A big regional event such as FOSS4G NA though might have an impact though. </div><div><br></div><div style>Daniel</div><div style><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

<div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div><div><br>
</div><div><div class="h5">
<br><div><div>On 17 Apr 2013, at 00:06, Cameron Shorter <<a href="mailto:cameron.shorter@gmail.com" target="_blank">cameron.shorter@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br><blockquote type="cite">
  
    
  
  <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    <div>I'd like to hear thoughts from people
      who organise FOSS4G regional events about the two year global /
      regional / global rotation.<br>
      <br>
      In particular, would large regional conferences such as FOSS4G-NA
      or FOSS4G-EU or FOSS4G-CEE be interested in only holding events
      every second year?<br>
      <br>
      <br>
      On 16/04/2013 9:46 PM, Bart van den Eijnden wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite">
      
      I think Barend's suggestion of a two year scheme (regional in year
      X, global in year Y) deserves some more discussion / attention.
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>Personally I can see the benefits of this scheme (no big
        competition from large regional conferences in the global year).<br>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Also, does OsGeo currently get money out of the big
          regional conferences (such as FOSS4G-CEE and FOSS4G-NA)?<br>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>Best regards,</div>
          <div>Bart</div>
          <div><br>
            <div>
              <span style="border-collapse:separate;font-family:Helvetica;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;border-spacing:0px;font-size:medium">-- <br>


                Bart van den Eijnden<br>
                OSGIS - <a href="http://osgis.nl/" target="_blank">http://osgis.nl</a></span>
            </div>
            <br>
            <div>
              <div>On Apr 15, 2013, at 11:34 AM, <a href="mailto:b.j.kobben@utwente.nl" target="_blank">b.j.kobben@utwente.nl</a>
                wrote:</div>
              <br>
              <blockquote type="cite">Hia ll,<br>
                <br>
                I am not a board member nor a conference committee
                member, but I feel an<br>
                urgent need to give my opinion here.<br>
                <br>
                I grow uncomfortable by some of the trends that seem to
                "logically follow"<br>
                (note the quotes, and yes I am exaggerating on purpose)
                from this<br>
                discussion:<br>
                1)- FOSS4G events are there to make money<br>
                2)- non NA/Europe events don't make (enough) money<br>
                3)- non NA/Europe events get badly organized (see
                Beijng)<br>
                <br>
                Proposition 1 already makes me feel itchy. How can you
                'charge' FOSS4G<br>
                main event organizers with being a cash cow ("expecting
                a $50K profit") if<br>
                at the same time encouraging (allowing?) other events to
                be organised that<br>
                almost certainly will cannabilise the main event
                (Foss4G-NA, FOSS4g CEE)<br>
                on which events you put no obligation to make money? I
                think we need a<br>
                two-year cycle: one year the main conference and other
                years regional ones<br>
                (i.e. ones actively supported by OSGEO "central", what
                the regional<br>
                chapters do on their own is their own responsibility).<br>
                <br>
                Proposition 2 is touching a nerve because I work at an
                institute that is<br>
                about capacity building for lesser developed countries.
                I think part of<br>
                OSGEO is promoting the use of FOSS, and bringing
                knowledge and experience<br>
                and enthousiasm about that to the places in the world
                that would profit<br>
                most from it is a good cause that is worth doing even if
                it brings you<br>
                less or no money. By all means subsidize the LDC
                meetings with profits<br>
                from the Europe/NA ones. Call me a specialist, but I
                prefer some<br>
                solidarity in this...<br>
                <br>
                Proposition 3 is plain not true. The South Africa FOSS4G
                was excellent in<br>
                my opinion, the Beijng one failed because of
                insufficient control<br>
                mechanisms (either in place or just not followed up on)
                to check on a<br>
                local organisation that chooses to do its own thing
                completely independent<br>
                of 'OSGEO central'. Could have happened with
                self-centered stubborn Dutch<br>
                organizers just as well, and certainly at least part of
                the blame should<br>
                be on the 'OSGEO central' shoulders...<br>
                <br>
                Yours truly,<br>
                <br>
                --<br>
                Barend Köbben <br>
                Senior Lecturer, ITC - University of Twente,<br>
                Faculty of Geo-Information Science and Earth Observation<br>
                PO Box 217, 7500AE Enschede (The Netherlands)<br>
                <br>
                <br>
                <br>
                <br>
                On 13-04-13 14:30, "Cameron Shorter" <<a href="mailto:cameron.shorter@gmail.com" target="_blank">cameron.shorter@gmail.com</a>>
                wrote:<br>
                <br>
                <blockquote type="cite">Frank,<br>
                  I agree that a compelling proposal should include
                  meeting foss4g<br>
                  financial expectations.<br>
                  <br>
                  For the record, the last board meeting discussed
                  changing guidelines for<br>
                  foss4g budgets from expecting a $20K profit under
                  conservative estimates,<br>
                  to a $50K profit. (This would typically result in a
                  $100K+ profit under<br>
                  expected conditions).<br>
                  <br>
                  David Bitner, pointed out that a $100K profit spread
                  across 1000<br>
                  attendees equates to $100 extra per delegate, which is
                  a good point, but<br>
                  should be tempered against the variability of FOSS4G
                  attendees, and the<br>
                  high impact on profits this has. Looking back at<br>
                  an old foss4g budget, I extrapolated some profit
                  figures:<br>
                  <br>
                  Attendees: Profit<br>
                  1000: $58K<br>
                  900: $35K<br>
                  800: $11K<br>
                  700: -$11K<br>
                  600: -$35K<br>
                  500: -$58K<br>
                  <br>
                  While I made some gross generalisations in my
                  extrapolation, the take<br>
                  home message is that fixed costs of a large conference
                  such as FOSS4G are<br>
                  very high, and consequently, a small percentage
                  increase or decrease in<br>
                  attendance has high impact on profitability.<br>
                  So if we want to ensure a worst case scenario of 500
                  delegates will break<br>
                  even, then we should expect to make a $110K profit for
                  an expected<br>
                  attendance of 1000.<br>
                  <br>
                  On 13/04/13 08:10, Frank Warmerdam wrote:<br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  Cameron,<br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  I feel this question ties into the expected revenue to
                  some degree.  I'm<br>
                  personally fine with your suggestion with the caveat
                  that we should<br>
                  expect a "compelling proposal" to meet our revenue
                  generation guidelines<br>
                  which is (IMHO) going to be hard<br>
                  to do if aim for $50K revenue in the conservative
                  case.<br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  I'm also fairly flexible on this who issue, but I
                  *feel* like every time<br>
                  we have a revenue discussion we come up with one set
                  of conclusions, but<br>
                  somehow we fail to actually apply those conclusion
                  when setting<br>
                  requirements for the conference.<br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  Best regards,<br>
                  Frank<br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 2:24 PM, Cameron Shorter<br>
                  <<a href="mailto:cameron.shorter@gmail.com" target="_blank">cameron.shorter@gmail.com</a>>
                  wrote:<br>
                  <br>
                  In the last board meeting, the question was raised
                  about global FOSS4G<br>
                  rotation.<br>
                  <br>
                  we currently have a 3 way rotation policy: Europe 2013
                  / North America<br>
                  2014 / Rest of world 2015<br>
                  <br>
                  It has been suggested that we should revisit this
                  rotation policy, and<br>
                  consider:<br>
                  <br>
                  Europe / North America / Europe / North America<br>
                  <br>
                  Reasons:<br>
                  * Previous global FOSS4G events have attracted more
                  people and been more<br>
                  lucrative in Europe / North America<br>
                  * Europe/North America could be argued to be less
                  financially risky. Our<br>
                  one cancelled FOSS4G was in China in 2012.<br>
                  * FOSS4G (global and regional) events traditionally
                  draw half their<br>
                  attendance from the local region. Europe and North
                  America both have<br>
                  large populations with established OSGeo communities.<br>
                  <br>
                  I'm in favour of continuing our current 3 way
                  rotation, on the proviso<br>
                  that there are proven OSGeo communities outside of
                  NA/Europe. By proven,<br>
                  I'd suggest that we would consider regions which have
                  already<br>
                  successfully staged a FOSS4G regional event (or
                  similar)<br>
                  and who can put together a compelling justification
                  that they can<br>
                  attract comparable attendees and sponsors to
                  Europe/North America.<br>
                  <br>
                  Looking at: <br>
                  <a href="http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Live_GIS_History" target="_blank">http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Live_GIS_History</a><br>
                  <a href="http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Live_GIS_History" target="_blank"><http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Live_GIS_History></a><br>
                  I see that there have previously been regional FOSS4G
                  events in:<br>
                  Argentina<br>
                  India<br>
                  Korea<br>
                  Malaysia<br>
                  Japan<br>
                  <br>
                  So for 2015, I'd suggest that our FOSS4G pre
                  qualification should invite<br>
                  responses from "rest of the world" and Europe, but we
                  should give a<br>
                  preference to "rest of world" assuming they can
                  provide a compelling<br>
                  proposal which is likely to attract similar success<br>
                  to past European and North American conferences.<br>
                  <br>
                  Generalising the rule. Our rotation policy should be:<br>
                  <br>
                  * We give a strong preference to a region which hasn't
                  had FOSS4G for 2<br>
                  years<br>
                  * We next consider the region which had FOSS4G 2 years
                  ago<br>
                  * Only as a last resort would we consider a region
                  which had FOSS4G last<br>
                  year<br>
                  <br>
                  Regions are considered as: Europe / North America /
                  Other locations<br>
                  <br>
                  -- <br>
                  Cameron Shorter<br>
                  Geospatial Solutions Manager<br>
                  Tel: <br>
                  <a href="tel:%2B61%20%280%292%208570%205050" value="+61285705050" target="_blank">+61 (0)2 8570 5050</a>
                  <tel:%2B61%20%280%292%208570%205050><br>
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                  <br>
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                  <br>
                  -- <br>
---------------------------------------+----------------------------------<br>
                  ----<br>
                  I set the clouds in motion - turn up   | Frank
                  Warmerdam,<br>
                  <a href="mailto:warmerdam@pobox.com" target="_blank">warmerdam@pobox.com</a> <a href="mailto:warmerdam@pobox.com" target="_blank"><mailto:warmerdam@pobox.com></a><br>
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                  and watch the world go round - Rush    | Geospatial
                  Software Developer<br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  -- <br>
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                  Geospatial Solutions Manager<br>
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                  Open Source<br>
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                </blockquote>
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            </div>
            <br>
          </div>
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      <br>
      <fieldset></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre>_______________________________________________
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</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <br>
    <pre cols="72">-- 
Cameron Shorter
Geospatial Solutions Manager
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</pre>
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</blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;border-collapse:collapse">Georepublic UG & Georepublic Japan<br>eMail: <a href="mailto:daniel.kastl@georepublic.de" style="color:rgb(66,99,171)" target="_blank">daniel.kastl@georepublic.de</a><br>

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