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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">From my assessment:<br>
<br>
We know from FOSS4G metrics that:<br>
* There are ~ 200 to 300 people who will travel to a global foss4g
event, anywhere in the world.<br>
* However, the majority of foss4g delegates are local or regional,
in the case of North America, in the order of 500+, and these 500
won't travel to Europe, or Australia, or ... to see FOSS4G.
Metrics are similar for the rest of the world.<br>
* There is a proven demand for annual regional FOSS4G events. A
global FOSS4G event would reach 1/3 or less of potential FOSS4G
attendees which multiple regional conferences could reach. <br>
* So if our primary goal is outreach to as many people as
possible, then we are best served by multiple regional FOSS4G
events.<br>
* The price we pay for this increased OSGeo market, is increased
marketing costs (in that vendors and delegates need to consider
travelling to multiple events).<br>
* The Open Source business model favours local businesses who can
provide local, personalised services. As such, I think that it is
in the interests of most OSGeo vendors to focus on regional
events, where they can reach more targeted customers.<br>
* And for the 300 odd people wishing to par-take in the "annual
gathering of the tribes", we will delegate one of the regional
conferences to be the global foss4g conference for the year.<br>
<br>
Hence, my vote is that we continue to have regional conferences
every year, with one of these regional conferences being given the
extra honour of being called the global conference.<br>
<br>
On 19/04/2013 12:54 PM, Daniel Kastl wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CABXBSH_fRP6Hd3SJNeLRenyN3H1QsVNWtGVS3fUq=hRF8K7=_A@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 3:01 AM,
Steven Feldman <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:shfeldman@gmail.com"
target="_blank">shfeldman@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">When we bid we were
concerned about regional events impacting attendance at
the big one inn Nottingham this year.
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div>this year we have a NA and CEE event as well as
FOSS4G. Everyone has reassured us that they have
little or no impact, I am not so confident in a time
of economic pressure but only time will tell. </div>
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div>It is difficult to be precise about cannibalisation
by regional events unless we survey the delegates at
these two regional events and ask them whether they
plan to also attend Nottingham and if not whether they
would have considered Nottingham if there had not been
a regional event. Is that worth doing?<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div style=""><br>
</div>
<div style="">Regarding regional events I would make a
difference between events that are mainly in English
language or some other language.</div>
<div style="">For example the German FOSSGIS or the Japanese
FOSS4G wouldn't really attract an audience, that doesn't
speak German or Japanese. Same for regional events in
Spanish or French. These local events are important,
because lot of people prefer to hear (or give)
presentations in their native language.</div>
<div style="">A big regional event such as FOSS4G NA though
might have an impact though. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div style="">Daniel</div>
<div style=""><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<br>
<div>
<div>On 17 Apr 2013, at 00:06, Cameron Shorter
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:cameron.shorter@gmail.com"
target="_blank">cameron.shorter@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div>I'd like to hear thoughts from people
who organise FOSS4G regional events about
the two year global / regional / global
rotation.<br>
<br>
In particular, would large regional
conferences such as FOSS4G-NA or FOSS4G-EU
or FOSS4G-CEE be interested in only
holding events every second year?<br>
<br>
<br>
On 16/04/2013 9:46 PM, Bart van den
Eijnden wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"> I think Barend's
suggestion of a two year scheme (regional
in year X, global in year Y) deserves some
more discussion / attention.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Personally I can see the benefits of
this scheme (no big competition from
large regional conferences in the global
year).<br>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Also, does OsGeo currently get
money out of the big regional
conferences (such as FOSS4G-CEE and
FOSS4G-NA)?<br>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best regards,</div>
<div>Bart</div>
<div><br>
<div> <span
style="border-collapse:separate;font-family:Helvetica;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;border-spacing:0px;font-size:medium">-- <br>
Bart van den Eijnden<br>
OSGIS - <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://osgis.nl/"
target="_blank">http://osgis.nl</a></span>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div>On Apr 15, 2013, at 11:34 AM,
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:b.j.kobben@utwente.nl"
target="_blank">b.j.kobben@utwente.nl</a>
wrote:</div>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Hia ll,<br>
<br>
I am not a board member nor a
conference committee member, but
I feel an<br>
urgent need to give my opinion
here.<br>
<br>
I grow uncomfortable by some of
the trends that seem to
"logically follow"<br>
(note the quotes, and yes I am
exaggerating on purpose) from
this<br>
discussion:<br>
1)- FOSS4G events are there to
make money<br>
2)- non NA/Europe events don't
make (enough) money<br>
3)- non NA/Europe events get
badly organized (see Beijng)<br>
<br>
Proposition 1 already makes me
feel itchy. How can you 'charge'
FOSS4G<br>
main event organizers with being
a cash cow ("expecting a $50K
profit") if<br>
at the same time encouraging
(allowing?) other events to be
organised that<br>
almost certainly will
cannabilise the main event
(Foss4G-NA, FOSS4g CEE)<br>
on which events you put no
obligation to make money? I
think we need a<br>
two-year cycle: one year the
main conference and other years
regional ones<br>
(i.e. ones actively supported by
OSGEO "central", what the
regional<br>
chapters do on their own is
their own responsibility).<br>
<br>
Proposition 2 is touching a
nerve because I work at an
institute that is<br>
about capacity building for
lesser developed countries. I
think part of<br>
OSGEO is promoting the use of
FOSS, and bringing knowledge and
experience<br>
and enthousiasm about that to
the places in the world that
would profit<br>
most from it is a good cause
that is worth doing even if it
brings you<br>
less or no money. By all means
subsidize the LDC meetings with
profits<br>
from the Europe/NA ones. Call me
a specialist, but I prefer some<br>
solidarity in this...<br>
<br>
Proposition 3 is plain not true.
The South Africa FOSS4G was
excellent in<br>
my opinion, the Beijng one
failed because of insufficient
control<br>
mechanisms (either in place or
just not followed up on) to
check on a<br>
local organisation that chooses
to do its own thing completely
independent<br>
of 'OSGEO central'. Could have
happened with self-centered
stubborn Dutch<br>
organizers just as well, and
certainly at least part of the
blame should<br>
be on the 'OSGEO central'
shoulders...<br>
<br>
Yours truly,<br>
<br>
--<br>
Barend Köbben <br>
Senior Lecturer, ITC -
University of Twente,<br>
Faculty of Geo-Information
Science and Earth Observation<br>
PO Box 217, 7500AE Enschede (The
Netherlands)<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 13-04-13 14:30, "Cameron
Shorter" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:cameron.shorter@gmail.com"
target="_blank">cameron.shorter@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Frank,<br>
I agree that a compelling
proposal should include
meeting foss4g<br>
financial expectations.<br>
<br>
For the record, the last board
meeting discussed changing
guidelines for<br>
foss4g budgets from expecting
a $20K profit under
conservative estimates,<br>
to a $50K profit. (This would
typically result in a $100K+
profit under<br>
expected conditions).<br>
<br>
David Bitner, pointed out that
a $100K profit spread across
1000<br>
attendees equates to $100
extra per delegate, which is a
good point, but<br>
should be tempered against the
variability of FOSS4G
attendees, and the<br>
high impact on profits this
has. Looking back at<br>
an old foss4g budget, I
extrapolated some profit
figures:<br>
<br>
Attendees: Profit<br>
1000: $58K<br>
900: $35K<br>
800: $11K<br>
700: -$11K<br>
600: -$35K<br>
500: -$58K<br>
<br>
While I made some gross
generalisations in my
extrapolation, the take<br>
home message is that fixed
costs of a large conference
such as FOSS4G are<br>
very high, and consequently, a
small percentage increase or
decrease in<br>
attendance has high impact on
profitability.<br>
So if we want to ensure a
worst case scenario of 500
delegates will break<br>
even, then we should expect to
make a $110K profit for an
expected<br>
attendance of 1000.<br>
<br>
On 13/04/13 08:10, Frank
Warmerdam wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
Cameron,<br>
<br>
<br>
I feel this question ties into
the expected revenue to some
degree. I'm<br>
personally fine with your
suggestion with the caveat
that we should<br>
expect a "compelling proposal"
to meet our revenue generation
guidelines<br>
which is (IMHO) going to be
hard<br>
to do if aim for $50K revenue
in the conservative case.<br>
<br>
<br>
I'm also fairly flexible on
this who issue, but I *feel*
like every time<br>
we have a revenue discussion
we come up with one set of
conclusions, but<br>
somehow we fail to actually
apply those conclusion when
setting<br>
requirements for the
conference.<br>
<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
Frank<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 2:24
PM, Cameron Shorter<br>
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:cameron.shorter@gmail.com" target="_blank">cameron.shorter@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
In the last board meeting, the
question was raised about
global FOSS4G<br>
rotation.<br>
<br>
we currently have a 3 way
rotation policy: Europe 2013 /
North America<br>
2014 / Rest of world 2015<br>
<br>
It has been suggested that we
should revisit this rotation
policy, and<br>
consider:<br>
<br>
Europe / North America /
Europe / North America<br>
<br>
Reasons:<br>
* Previous global FOSS4G
events have attracted more
people and been more<br>
lucrative in Europe / North
America<br>
* Europe/North America could
be argued to be less
financially risky. Our<br>
one cancelled FOSS4G was in
China in 2012.<br>
* FOSS4G (global and regional)
events traditionally draw half
their<br>
attendance from the local
region. Europe and North
America both have<br>
large populations with
established OSGeo communities.<br>
<br>
I'm in favour of continuing
our current 3 way rotation, on
the proviso<br>
that there are proven OSGeo
communities outside of
NA/Europe. By proven,<br>
I'd suggest that we would
consider regions which have
already<br>
successfully staged a FOSS4G
regional event (or similar)<br>
and who can put together a
compelling justification that
they can<br>
attract comparable attendees
and sponsors to Europe/North
America.<br>
<br>
Looking at: <br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Live_GIS_History"
target="_blank">http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Live_GIS_History</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Live_GIS_History"
target="_blank"><http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Live_GIS_History></a><br>
I see that there have
previously been regional
FOSS4G events in:<br>
Argentina<br>
India<br>
Korea<br>
Malaysia<br>
Japan<br>
<br>
So for 2015, I'd suggest that
our FOSS4G pre qualification
should invite<br>
responses from "rest of the
world" and Europe, but we
should give a<br>
preference to "rest of world"
assuming they can provide a
compelling<br>
proposal which is likely to
attract similar success<br>
to past European and North
American conferences.<br>
<br>
Generalising the rule. Our
rotation policy should be:<br>
<br>
* We give a strong preference
to a region which hasn't had
FOSS4G for 2<br>
years<br>
* We next consider the region
which had FOSS4G 2 years ago<br>
* Only as a last resort would
we consider a region which had
FOSS4G last<br>
year<br>
<br>
Regions are considered as:
Europe / North America / Other
locations<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Cameron Shorter<br>
Geospatial Solutions Manager<br>
Tel: <br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:%2B61%20%280%292%208570%205050"
value="+61285705050"
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value="+61419142254"
target="_blank">+61 (0)419
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<tel:%2B61%20%280%29419%20142%20254><br>
<br>
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-- <br>
---------------------------------------+----------------------------------<br>
----<br>
I set the clouds in motion -
turn up | Frank Warmerdam,<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:warmerdam@pobox.com"
target="_blank">warmerdam@pobox.com</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:warmerdam@pobox.com"
target="_blank"><mailto:warmerdam@pobox.com></a><br>
light and sound - activate the
windows |<br>
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href="http://pobox.com/%7Ewarmerdam"
target="_blank">http://pobox.com/~warmerdam</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://pobox.com/%7Ewarmerdam"
target="_blank"><http://pobox.com/%7Ewarmerdam></a><br>
and watch the world go round -
Rush | Geospatial Software
Developer<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Cameron Shorter<br>
Geospatial Solutions Manager<br>
Tel: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:%2B61%20%280%292%208570%205050"
value="+61285705050"
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href="tel:%2B61%20%280%29419%20142%20254"
value="+61419142254"
target="_blank">+61 (0)419
142 254</a><br>
<br>
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with Open Standards and Open
Source<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.lisasoft.com/"
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<pre cols="72">--
Cameron Shorter
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Tel: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B61%20%280%292%208570%205050" value="+61285705050" target="_blank">+61 (0)2 8570 5050</a>
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Cameron Shorter
Geospatial Solutions Manager
Tel: +61 (0)2 8570 5050
Mob: +61 (0)419 142 254
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