<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><div>Hey Andrew,</div><div><br></div>I think the first step is putting this on the agenda for one of the next board meetings and discussing it at the board level. This will probably need to wait until the current board elections are finished.<div><br></div><div>Once that has happened, it would be helpful if you would be available to answer questions. I’ll notify you as soon as I’ve added it to the board meeting’s agenda.</div><div><br></div><div>Personally I feel we need to finalise this discussion before we put out the 2016 RFP (ideally).</div><div><br></div><div>Maybe this is even a topic we can use to consult our charter members, if they see any issues with OSGeo and Eclipse running the main FOSS4G conference together in the future?</div><div><br></div><div>One of the things I’ve heard in the past is that some people are afraid that running a more professional conference will take away the grass roots / community feeling of FOSS4G. As I said, I myself have no issues with this, but it’s a common theme that comes up.</div><div><div><br></div><div>Best regards,</div><div>Bart</div><div><br><div><div>On 26 Aug 2014, at 15:31, Andrew Ross <<a href="mailto:andrew.ross@eclipse.org">andrew.ross@eclipse.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite">
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Thank you for the email Bart. I feel
this is definitely worth exploring and I'm glad to participate.<br>
<br>
What makes sense for the next steps?<br>
<br>
On 26/08/14 07:46, Bart van den Eijnden wrote:<br>
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Hey Andrew,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>(my response is a personal response, not a board response).<br>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>First off I’d like to thank you for the kind offer of
working together. I want to make sure we discuss this at the
board level and hopefully come to some consensus on this.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Personally I am very interested to see what this
collaboration could bring both parties.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best regards,</div>
<div>Bart</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On 15 Aug 2014, at 05:51, Andrew Ross <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:andrew.ross@eclipse.org">andrew.ross@eclipse.org</a>>
wrote:</div>
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<div>Hey Jeff, Everyone<br>
<br>
I'd like to comment briefly.<br>
<br>
I feel a 800+ person conference is of a sufficient
size that it's not a good idea to burn out volunteers
organizing. To throw a new team to the wolves each
year is extremely risky.<br>
<br>
The obvious options are to not have such a large
event, or choose a different model to organize.<br>
<br>
I feel that a conference of such size is very
important. It's what draws the ecosystem together and
helps it grow. Not having the large event would be a
loss.<br>
<br>
It is simply too big to hold at most Universities, and
especially in the fall.<br>
<br>
For what it's worth, I also feel smaller regional and
plenty of local events are important too. That's
orthogonal to the global event though.<br>
<br>
I've been open about what the Eclipse Foundation &
LocationTech can do. It has full time staff with
experience to run a consistently great technology
conferences with lots of camaraderie.<br>
<br>
Let's work together. FOSS4G NA 2015 will be a nice
opportunity, test, and display. For those who are
highly motivated, feel free to go back to the D.C. bid
and provide feedback. I feel it was a great bid,
credible, and a good indication of the kind of event
we'd hold in the future. Maybe this is a good option
to address many of the issues? Worth exploring a bit
in any case.<br>
<br>
Andrew<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On August 14, 2014 9:54:49 AM
EDT, Jeff McKenna <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:jmckenna@gatewaygeomatics.com">jmckenna@gatewaygeomatics.com</a>>
wrote:
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt
0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204,
204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<pre class="k9mail">Hi Darrell,
I can say that in 2011 I did bring this issue strongly, and very
publicly, to the OSGeo Board. I even proposed a part-time position to
manage the main FOSS4G conference (google 'foss4g advisor' for some
history and fun reading, all there outlined in a public wiki page forever).
Well, that didn't happen. And as you just mentioned, it's still needed.
Or, if that cannot happen, we need to realize this, and change our
mindset, back to the origins of FOSS4G: a meeting of the tribe, cheap
admission, affordable university venues, bare-bones (essentially what
our FOSS4G regional events are doing now).
Because yes I agree, to assume a bunch of volunteers can run a ~1,000
attendee event in the best conference venue in the city and still make
it affordable for the tribe to attend, will not work.
-jeff
On 2014-08-14 12:10 AM,
Darrell Fuhriman wrote:
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #729fcf; padding-left: 1ex;"> I’m trying to formulate a response to this, but it ties into an e-mail
that I owe this list, but haven’t had time to send because I’ve been
busy finalizing the conference preparations. Also, I’m well into my
third pint this evening, so it’s probably not the best time. :)
While I agree the early bird discount is important for the reasons you
state, there actually aren’t that many commitments that can be avoided
after the deadline. Frankly, the only significant contracts unsigned by
our early bird deadline of June 15th were the catering contracts. Though
admittedly, that’s a substantial portion of the budget – if we were on
that red line, we’d be jettisoning coffee breaks like ballast in a
sinking ship.
I think right now the quickest thing I
can say is that OSGeo has so far
shown minimal interest in actually taking responsibility for FOSS4G. If
OSGeo is going to increase the demands made on the committee, OSGeo
needs to be stepping up and taking a more hands-on approach to
conference organization.
For the record, I believe OSGeo needs to step up and take such a more
hands on approach. I’d love a chance to talk about in person at the
board meeting.
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://sotm.us/">SotM.us</a> <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://sotm.us/">http://SotM.us</a>> runs very different, and I know from talking
with the organizers that it was a challenge to break-even this year. The
difficulty is that as conferences get bigger, they get more expensive to
put on (primarily because the supply of possible venues shrinks very
rapidly, and the per attendee costs go up substantially). They also get
logistically more challenging, and having dedicated resources,
either
employee or outsourced, can vastly decrease the workload on the LOC.
Frankly, unless something changes on this front, it’s just a matter of
time until there’s another 2012. To be honest, I’m not sure <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://sotm.us/">SotM.us</a>
<<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://sotm.us/">http://SotM.us</a>> would have been a success if Mapbox hadn’t devoted
significant employee resources to making sure it was (as they have for
the past three <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://sotm.us/">SotM.us</a> <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://sotm.us/">http://SotM.us</a>> conferences). Conferences take
huge numbers of hours to organize. The inefficiency introduced by having
someone re-learn the job every year is substantial, wasteful, and
incredibly risky.
Anyway, I’m supposed to be on vacation.
Greetings from Yellowstone,
Darrell
On Aug 13, 2014, at 13:41, Cameron Shorter <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:cameron.shorter@gmail.com">cameron.shorter@gmail.com</a>
<<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:cameron.shorter@gmail.com">mailto:cameron.shorter@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #ad7fa8; padding-left: 1ex;"> I'm open to the idea of providing benefits to osgeo charter members,
but suggest having an early bird discount apply to all ticket
categories. I'd suggest something like a 5% discount for charter
member tickets instead.
Note: conferences organisors need to decide whether they will also
give such a discount to professional bodies as well (such as
professional institute of surveyors). Such organisations often
aggressively request a discount for their members in return for
publicising foss4g to their membership.
There is a very important reason conferences have a early bird
discount. It means that conference organisors get an early indication
of the number of attendees coming to the conference. This helps
significantly with
regards to making financial decisions about the
conference. In particular, it enables organisors to decide to cancel
the conference before having to lock into key financial commitments
and potentially sending OSGeo bankrupt. This was very important for us
in FOSS4G 2009, the year of the global financial crisis, when
registrations were much lower than expected. At the early bird
deadline, we were aware that we had enough people attending that we
would loose less money by going ahead than if we cancelled, so we went
ahead. Without that confidence, we likely would have decided to cancel
the conference. (In the end more people did register, and we were just
able to make a modest profit.)
On 14/08/2014 4:56 am, Kate Chapman wrote:
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #8ae234; padding-left: 1ex;"> Hi All,
I think the comparison between the SotM model
and the FOSS4G model is
interesting, but it is important to think about the financial
objectives of each conference. My understanding was that FOSS4G
provides most of the funding for OSGEO over the year, this isn't the
case for SotM. Though successful sponsorship programs could possibly
make up the difference between the discounted tickets.
One note, I've worked for a few organizations that have paid my
ticket for SotM. I've also paid the mapper price myself previously as
well. I would have not been able to get them to pay for FOSS4G
though. Some of you may have noticed I have given a workshop every
year I've attended FOSS4G. I would not be able to attend otherwise.
Not that it is conceivable for everyone to give a workshop to be able
to attend.
Best,
-Kate
On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 11:46 AM, Daniel Kastl <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:daniel@georepublic.de">daniel@georepublic.de</a>
<<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:daniel@georepublic.de">mailto:daniel@georepublic.de</a>>> wrote:
SotM finances are based on the expectation that most people
attending will be ‘mappers’ who pay the lower rate, I doubt
they make much money from the business tickets.
Hi Steven,
I agree that SotM is a bit extreme in the price difference. It
doesn't need to be that much. But I can speak for SotM Tokyo,
where I was involved, and there were more business tickets sold
than I expected and they made up a large share of the total
revenue through ticket sales.
My main point is, that for delegates, who get paid the conference
by their employer, a slightly higher price doesn't really matter
(it's just a fraction of the total cost anyway), because they
just pass the costs to the employer. For the employer it has a
value, if one can see the company name on
the badge.
But someone from nearby for example or tries to keep the travel
costs low and takes a holiday to attend FOSS4G, such a discounted
community ticket makes a difference, whether the person is a
charter member or not.
I think we should strengthen the value of the community, not the
"club" of charter members. ;-)
Daniel
--
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