<div dir="ltr"><div>Hello all,</div><div><br></div><div>It has been two weeks on this poll and we have heard from 7 of 19 voting members or 37%. 63% have not responded. </div><div><br></div><div>Till, Peter, David B, Maria B, Vasile, David F, Gavin, Claude, Venkatesh, Paul, Msilikale, and Mark have not responded (or I missed it). Do any of you have an opinion on this matter? </div><div><br></div><div>Some of the best ideas and contributions to the conference committee have come from non-voting members and that remains a possibility. In my mind Jeroen has provided valuable insight on conferences for ten years or more. I greatly value that. The focus on voting members is to try to get responses and that the conference committee has had difficulty operating and is sometimes unwieldy. If the voting members are unable to operate (or even decide if they want to try operating on something), then we don't have to waste time on it. <br></div><div><br></div><div>Best regards, Eli<br></div><div><br><input name="virtru-metadata" type="hidden" value="{"email-policy":{"state":"closed","expirationUnit":"days","disableCopyPaste":false,"disablePrint":false,"disableForwarding":false,"enableNoauth":false,"persistentProtection":false,"expandedWatermarking":false,"expires":false,"isManaged":false},"attachments":{},"compose-id":"5","compose-window":{"secure":false}}"></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Feb 8, 2022 at 1:25 PM Bruce Bannerman via Discuss <<a href="mailto:discuss@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">discuss@lists.osgeo.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div dir="ltr"></div><div dir="ltr">Well said Sanghee.</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">As a former member of the LOC for FOSS4G-2009 I agree with the local community development argument, though in our case it led to a lot of burn-out.</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">There is also the practicality of finding a conference organiser that can operate effectively anywhere in the world.</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Should the alternate approach go through, significant thought also needs to go into the procurement process to avoid the very real potential for corruption.</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Kind regards,</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Bruce</div><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On 9 Feb 2022, at 01:28, 신상희 via Discuss <<a href="mailto:discuss@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">discuss@lists.osgeo.org</a>> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">
<div>Hi all, </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I prefer option 1. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If this poll was asked just after FOSS4G Seoul 2015, I would have selected option 2 without any hesitations. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>However I now realize that I, LOC members, and local community had learned a lot by going through the difficulties of preparing the event altogether. That experience was very unique, invaluable and is now one of driving force of vibrant activity of OSGeo
Korean chapter. Community driven FOSS4G with help from PCO is not so bad model, I think. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Kind regards, </div>
<div id="m_-3288858341758132725m_771899635936014201gmail-m_-7570965796187456226signature_old">
<div id="m_-3288858341758132725m_771899635936014201gmail-m_-7570965796187456226xaa51bdecbcf945b">신상희<br>
---<br>
Shin, Sanghee<br>
Gaia3D, Inc. - The GeoSpatial Company<br>
<a href="http://www.gaia3d.com" target="_blank">www.gaia3d.com</a><br>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>------ Original Message ------</div>
<div>From: "michael terner" <<a href="mailto:ternergeo@gmail.com" target="_blank">ternergeo@gmail.com</a>></div>
<div>To: "Steven Feldman" <<a href="mailto:shfeldman@gmail.com" target="_blank">shfeldman@gmail.com</a>></div>
<div>Cc: "OSGeo-Conf" <<a href="mailto:conference_dev@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">conference_dev@lists.osgeo.org</a>>; "OSGeo Discussions" <<a href="mailto:discuss@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">discuss@lists.osgeo.org</a>>; "Massimiliano Cannata" <<a href="mailto:massimiliano.cannata@supsi.ch" target="_blank">massimiliano.cannata@supsi.ch</a>>;
"Eli Adam" <<a href="mailto:eadam@co.lincoln.or.us" target="_blank">eadam@co.lincoln.or.us</a>></div>
<div>Sent: 2022-02-06 오전 6:09:42</div>
<div>Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Conf] Poll: Change FOSS4G structure to have some continuity of organization and management</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div id="m_-3288858341758132725m_771899635936014201gmail-m_-7570965796187456226x4202c094b74141a">
<blockquote cite="http://CAFk2e0J7cj4Q3Pke=N5Y7DT0gBtLNQfvU322FNd0ym4KUnF9oA@mail.gmail.com" type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="auto">+2<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"> for considering change</span>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">There's definitely room to <i>consider</i> continual improvements for the conference process, as the world, and our community has evolved considerably over the last few years.<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">
No easy solutions, but lots to think about.</span></div>
<div dir="auto"><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">Eli starting this thread with an "informal poll" makes complete sense. The Committee is simply doing it's job of helping the Board to manage and promote the conference activity. We don't
get to make decisions by ourselves, but generating ideas is certainly part of the mandate. And, as others have said, if the board disagrees with a proposal/idea, they do not have to approve it.</span></div>
<div><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">MT</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Feb 4, 2022, 6:02 AM Steven Feldman <<a href="mailto:shfeldman@gmail.com" target="_blank">shfeldman@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>+2 from me
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Everyone is welcome to participate in the conversation about changes to the organisation of FOSS4G, then the Conference Ctee should vote and make a recommendation (or recommendations) to the Board and the Board should decide.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Our organisational model is that the charter members elect the board and the board then makes decisions on their behalf, if CM’s don’t agree with board decisions they have the option to vote in a new board, we do not have a direct voting or referendum
system where CM’s are consulted on individual decisions.<br>
<div>
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<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On 4 Feb 2022, at 09:01, Jeroen Ticheler <<a href="mailto:jeroen.ticheler@geocat.net" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">jeroen.ticheler@geocat.net</a>> wrote:</div>
<br>
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<div dir="auto">Hi Maxi,<br>
Thanks! I completely agree with those type of changes indeed. It makes sense we have a list of scenario’s forward and have a vote on that by the community. <br>
<br>
For what the membership of the conference committee is concerned, I left simply because of the supposed/imposed barrier of not having been a conference chair, although I didn’t agree with that at all. Didn’t feel like fighting over it though. It would be better
to make membership voluntary just like other committees. Possibly approved by the board or charter members. <br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Jeroen</div>
</div>
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Jeroen Ticheler<br>
Mobile: +31681286572<br>
E-mail:<span> </span><a href="mailto:jeroen.ticheler@geocat.net" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">jeroen.ticheler@geocat.net</a><br>
<a href="https://www.geocat.net/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.geocat.net</a></td>
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Veenderweg 13<br>
6721 WD Bennekom<br>
The Netherlands<br>
Tel: +31318416664<br>
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On 4 Feb 2022, 09:02 +0100, Massimiliano Cannata <<a href="mailto:massimiliano.cannata@supsi.ch" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">massimiliano.cannata@supsi.ch</a>>, wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite" style="border-left:thin solid grey;margin:5px;padding-left:10px">
<div dir="auto">Dear Jeroen,
<div dir="auto">Thanks for your considerations.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I wasn't proposing to extend the evaluation of proposals to the whole community. I understand a dedicated committee should do this (even though I believe a part of the evaluation of a proposal could be assigned by votes of the community, maybe
10%?).</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">My point is that decisions of changing the organisation of the FOSS4G cannot be done without the involvement of the whole community. It's not about changing the evaluation process, it's about deciding for example to have a fixed location, to
completely leave it to an external company, to pay the committee members to do it, to have it online or in person, to cancel the global and keep only to local conference...</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Another point is that so far there's the assumption that only organizer of previous FOSS4G have the competence to understand technical matters. That's quite aleatory and in no other committee there is such an entry barrier... If you didn't play
in NBA you cannot be a good coach? Can a government self-elect his members? What about innovation, new ideas and other experiences, or we're just close in our FOSS4G past events experience... Because only if you run a global conference you have the competence...</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Sorry to be long, and this is not personal at all, I just like being inclusive and have empowered participatory approach..</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">All the best,</div>
<div dir="auto">Maxi</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Il gio 3 feb 2022, 17:04 Jeroen Ticheler <<a href="mailto:jeroen.ticheler@geocat.net" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">jeroen.ticheler@geocat.net</a>> ha scritto:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div name="messageBodySection">
<div dir="auto">Hi Maxi,<br>
Thanks for sharing your view on this. Although I sympathize with the idea of a whole community having a say in how conference locations is selected and organized, I’m not in favor of the process you propose. Reading LOI’s and full proposals takes a lot of time
and voting a lot of thought and discussion. It really helps to have previous conference organizers on the committee as well. At the same time I also think the committee should be open to other members (I used to be a member long time ago while I never chaired
a conference, and I don’t think that mattered honestly). <br>
Concluding, I think selecting a conference / proposal should be taken care of by the committee, not by all charter members or the whole community. Maybe the board or the charter members should decide for an elected committee similar to what we already do with
the board elections. <br>
Cheers,<br>
Jeroen</div>
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Jeroen Ticheler<br>
Mobile: +31681286572<br>
E-mail:<span> </span><a href="mailto:jeroen.ticheler@geocat.net" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">jeroen.ticheler@geocat.net</a><br>
<a href="https://www.geocat.net/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.geocat.net</a></td>
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Veenderweg 13<br>
6721 WD Bennekom<br>
The Netherlands<br>
Tel: +31318416664<br>
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<div name="messageReplySection">On 3 Feb 2022, 16:15 +0100, Massimiliano Cannata <<a href="mailto:massimiliano.cannata@supsi.ch" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">massimiliano.cannata@supsi.ch</a>>, wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite" style="border-left:thin solid grey;margin:5px;padding-left:10px">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">Dear conference community,</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">why is the community left out from this decision / discussion?</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">The FOSS4G conference is a property of OSGeo, and therefore of the community as a whole.</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">The conference committee has not been elected so cannot decide in representation of the community.</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">As an OPEN community I strongly believe that all the charter members (at least) should have a word or vote on such an important decision.</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">I hope this message is not ignored..</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">Maxi</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Il giorno gio 3 feb 2022 alle ore 15:04 Eli Adam <<a href="mailto:eadam@co.lincoln.or.us" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">eadam@co.lincoln.or.us</a>> ha scritto:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Hi all (particularly voting committee members),
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The current FOSS4G structure has a new LOC every year starting more or less from scratch (some things like mailing lists and seed money are passed on). Over the years, many people have commented on the load of work this creates for the LOC, the general
inefficiency, the risk, and the burnout. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>If you consider yourself a voting member of the committee (<a href="https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Conference_Committee#Current_Members" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Conference_Committee#Current_Members</a>),
please indicate your preference on this. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div>This is an informal poll to see if the conference committee wants to:</div>
<div>1. Keep it the way it is and not change anything<br>
</div>
<div>2. Change the FOSS4G organizing structure to something else (discussion of what we change it to can come later if people want to pursue this). </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As I've expressed several times, I prefer option 2, changing the FOSS4G organizing structure. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks for your time and participation.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best regards, Eli</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
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<div dir="ltr">
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