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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Richard,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>You make an interesting point. I would respond to your
argument in this way:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Richard wrote: “I think this may be the best way to
show the return on the taxpayers' investment in the data. The vast majority of
citizens don't want to manipulate these datasets; they only want to view them.
The MrSID format with USGS topo maps and USDA county compressed mosaics makes them
available to many more people than a more open format would.”<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>If you can only view the data, you really miss out on a lot
of its value. To really benefit from the data you need to be able to manipulate
it, and to convert it to/from other formats. How useful would shapefiles be if
we could only look at them?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I think the main argument for using MRSID is the file
compression. But this is the government we are talking about. Tile the image
data and put up an easy to use index online that allows people to download just
what they need. Users that want to access images for entire counties are likely
going to have the computing power to use that much data anyways. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>In my mind, the issue can be boiled down to this: MRSID
doesn’t have to be a closed file format. Look at a company like Adobe.
Governments around the world release tons of data in PDF format. But Adobe
publishes a spec for this format. This has important implications for the
adoption of the format, for the ability to archive, for dealing with vendor
lock-in, and for supporting development of open source software. Adobe makes a
killing on PDF software, but if you wanted to write an open source library to
write and manipulate PDF files you could. (iText is an example.)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>The bottom line is that closed file formats give a company
like LizardTech a way to lock out competition from other commercial companies
or from open source developers. They don’t have to keep the file format
closed, they choose to do so. They could publish a spec if they wanted and the
USDA would loose none of the benefits of the MRSID file format. If there was a
published spec I would have no problem with the USDA using MRSID or with them
paying LizardTech for software and support because of their choice of this
format.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I’d wager LizardTech keeps the MRSID closed for the
same reason Autodesk keeps the DWG format closed. It means money and market
control. I don’t think <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">US</st1:place></st1:country-region>
taxpayers should be supporting that type of business model.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I know what I’m saying here likely rubs some people
the wrong way. But this is the OSGeo mailing list. :]<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I don’t care if a private company chooses to use
MRSID. I don’t care how Autodesk and LizardTech run their businesses.
Until you get my tax payers involved. Then I have a right to be critical. My
government’s choices in these matters say more about a single business or
IT decision. They say a lot about what principles we value and financially
support as a society.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><strong><b><font size=3 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Landon</span></font></b></strong><font
color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Office Phone Number: (209) 946-0268<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Cell Phone Number: (209) 992-0658<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
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face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
discuss-bounces@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:discuss-bounces@lists.osgeo.org] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Richard Rupp<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, August 20, 2009
10:03 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">OSGeo
Discussions</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] OSGeo
friendly countries to live in</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>All,<br>
<br>
This is a great thought-provoking discussion.<br>
<br>
Thinking about the <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">U.S.</st1:place></st1:country-region>
geodata released in the MrSID format. I think this may be the best way to show
the return on the taxpayers' investment in the data. The vast majority of
citizens don't want to manipulate these datasets; they only want to view them.
The MrSID format with USGS topo maps and USDA county compressed mosaics makes them
available to many more people than a more open format would.<br>
<br>
For those of us who want to manipulate these datasets with our geospatial <st1:City
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">OSS</st1:place></st1:City>, alternatives are
available. Perhaps someday there will be a widely adopted open format that can
compete with MrSID but for today the MrSID option provides for the best access
for the largest number of people.<br>
<br>
Regards, Richard<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 7:36 AM, <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Landon Blake</st1:PersonName>
<<a href="mailto:lblake@ksninc.com">lblake@ksninc.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>MPG,<br>
<br>
I didn't mean to shine a spotlight on the USDA's use of MRSID. It is one<br>
of several examples of an attitude I was trying to describe.<br>
<br>
I think you and I respectfully disagree with one another on one aspect<br>
of this debate. In my humble opinion sharing data acquired with tax<br>
payer funding in a format that is easily accessed without the use of<br>
proprietary software should be the most important factor in a file<br>
format decision by a government agency. (Well, maybe the second most<br>
important. The most important is the license that data is released<br>
under.)<br>
<br>
A company is well within its rights to use and promote a proprietary<br>
file format. I admit that file format may even have awesome benefits<br>
when compared to the best equivalent open file format.<br>
<br>
Just don't ask me to be happy when my government decides to use this<br>
proprietary file format. I think it short changes the citizens of the<br>
government and give that company an unfair advantage over its<br>
competitors.<br>
<br>
I'd much rather see the government support a company that was trying to<br>
build its business around open technology standards.<br>
<br>
In my opinion, you can't have it all. If you want to build your business<br>
model around a proprietary file format like DWG or MRSID you should be<br>
prepared to deal with a little push back from open source and open<br>
technology advocates, especially when their money (in the form of tax<br>
dollars) is involved.<br>
<br>
One of the greatest things ESRI ever did was publish the Shapefile<br>
specification. I don't doubt they have a software monopoly of sorts, but<br>
I will always respect them for that move. In many respects it has<br>
changed my view of their company. I don't know that the free software<br>
movement on the geospatial side of things would have been widely adopted<br>
without that standard way to share data.<br>
<br>
But alas, I am just one man and my opinion doesn't count for much in the<br>
greater scheme of things!<br>
<br>
I appreciate having an open source advocate like you at LizardTech, and<br>
please don't take my e-mail as a personal attack. The use of open file<br>
formats by our governments is just something I feel strongly about.<br>
<font color="#888888"><span style='color:#888888'><br>
Landon</span></font><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
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