Interesting... I can understand why NAIP was in MRSID. It's a pretty large dataset - and I think .SID was more widely supported than JP2 until recently. The USDA site does provide links to PCI Geomatics FreeView, which can read .SID format but not save it. IrfanView, with a plugin, can read SID format and convert. So it's not a dead-end format. And it sure beats SDTS!<div>
<br></div><div>I think data interchange and real interoperability has only recently been possible for large raster datasets. It's still a chore if you have to re-project large raster datasets. This may add some content to a research paper I'm working on.</div>
<div><br></div><div>-Eric<br><div><br></div><div><br clear="all">-=--=---=----=----=---=--=-=--=---=----=---=--=-=-<br>Eric B. Wolf New! 720-334-7734<br>USGS Geographer<br>Center of Excellence in GIScience<br>
PhD Student <br>CU-Boulder - Geography<br><br>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 2:22 PM, Landon Blake <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:lblake@ksninc.com">lblake@ksninc.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
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<p><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Eric,</span></font></p>
<p><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> </span></font></p>
<p><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">The imagery I am talking about is from the
USDA APFO:</span></font></p>
<p><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> </span></font></p>
<p><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> </span></font></p>
<p><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">This FAQ contains a snippet about the
format:</span></font></p>
<p><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><a href="http://www.fsa.usda.gov/FSA/apfoapp?area=home&subject=prog&topic=nai" target="_blank">http://www.fsa.usda.gov/FSA/apfoapp?area=home&subject=prog&topic=nai</a></span></font></p>
<p><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> </span></font></p>
<p><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">In an interesting turn of events I note
that as of 2008, the USDA is releasing the county mosaics in JP2 format, not in
MRSID. I am not sure what brought about this change, and I wasn’t aware that it
had been made. The same web page indicates that there is a shapefile index for
the individual image tiles.</span></font></p>
<p><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> </span></font></p>
<p><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">It appears that you can also download the
county mosaics online.</span></font></p>
<p><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> </span></font></p>
<p><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">A lot of this has changed (improved) in
the last couple of years. I’m glad I checked again. That being said, the
principles from our discussion still apply. :]</span></font></p>
<p><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> </span></font></p>
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<p><strong><b><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Landon</span></font></b></strong><font color="navy"><span style="color:navy"></span></font></p>
<p><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Office Phone Number: (209) 946-0268</span></font><font color="navy"><span style="color:navy"></span></font></p>
<p><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Cell Phone Number: (209) 992-0658</span></font><font color="navy"><span style="color:navy"></span></font></p>
<p><font size="3" color="navy" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:navy"> </span></font></p>
<p><font size="3" color="navy" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:navy"> </span></font></p>
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<div align="center" style="text-align:center"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">
<hr size="2" width="100%" align="center">
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<p><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma">
<a href="mailto:discuss-bounces@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">discuss-bounces@lists.osgeo.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:discuss-bounces@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">discuss-bounces@lists.osgeo.org</a>] <b><span style="font-weight:bold">On Behalf Of </span></b>Eric Wolf<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, August 20, 2009
1:15 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> OSGeo
Discussions<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open
File Formats and Proprietary Algorithms</span></font></p>
</div><div><div></div><div class="h5">
<p><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span></font></p>
<p><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">The MRSID format is a very special case - and perhaps an opportunity
for a new FOSS file format. MRSID is a lossless, fractal-based, multi-scale
raster compression format. LizardTech has the algorithms to encode and decode
MRSID locked up in copyrights, and I believe, patents. Even companies like ESRI
shell out big bucks to LizardTech to be able to read and write the MRSID format.</span></font></p>
<div>
<p><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span></font></p>
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<div>
<p><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">I guess I missed the context of the discussion. Is the government
releasing certain data exclusively in this format? If so, I think the argument
can be made against this practice. The different in compression between MRSID
and gziped TIFFs isn't really that great in this day of cheap disks and fat
pipes.</span></font></p>
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<p><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span></font></p>
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<p><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">-Eric</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><br clear="all">
-=--=---=----=----=---=--=-=--=---=----=---=--=-=-<br>
Eric B. Wolf
New! 720-334-7734<br>
USGS Geographer<br>
Center of Excellence in GIScience<br>
PhD Student <br>
CU-Boulder - Geography<br>
<br>
<br>
</span></font></p>
<div>
<p><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 12:27 PM, Landon
Blake <<a href="mailto:lblake@ksninc.com" target="_blank">lblake@ksninc.com</a>>
wrote:</span></font></p>
<div link="blue" vlink="purple">
<div>
<p><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial">I
realized that publishing a spec for a file format like MRSID isn’t as clear cut
as I had at first thought. If the MRSID software uses a fancy top-secret
compression/decompression algorithm to move data to and from the file format
knowing only the structure of the format would do no good. You’d have to
release the details of the algorithm as well.</span></font></p>
<p><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial"> </span></font></p>
<p><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial">I
still don’t think proprietary file formats are a good idea for government data
released to the public, but I admit that having a company like LizardTech
publish a spec for something like MRSID is not necessarily a simple task. No
doubt a lot of time and money goes into developing those algorithms.</span></font></p>
<p><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial"> </span></font></p>
<p><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial">This
makes me wonder about algorithms used to purposefully encrypt binary file
formats. That is another can of worms. It looks like the easiest thing to do is
to start with a file format that was designed to be open from the very
beginning.</span></font></p>
<p><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial"> </span></font></p>
<p><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial">Landon</span></font></p>
<p><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span></font></p>
</div>
<p style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span></font></p>
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have received this information in error, please notify the sender immediately.</span></font></p>
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