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      <font face="Comic Sans MS" size="3">Landon&#44;</font>    </p>
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      <font face="Comic Sans MS" size="3">Rather than sput off about something theoretical&#44; I&#39;ll relate our use of MRSID deliverables.</font>    </p>
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      <font face="Comic Sans MS" size="3">This is our Typical publishing process for MRSID format data that we receive&#44; which happens fairly regularly.</font>    </p>
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      <font face="Comic Sans MS" size="3">Our use case in this instance is for visual inspection of aerial photography.</font>    </p>
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      <font face="Comic Sans MS" size="3">&#42; First we extract JPG tile pyramids from the MrSID format into MapServer ready tile layers doubling/halving the resolution of the output for each level of tiles along with generating WORLD files for each tile. &#40;we actually have a static grid that we use for tiling that makes this a one time process&#44; since the WORLD files are reusable across data sets.&#41;</font>    </p>
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      <font face="Comic Sans MS" size="3">&#42; Then&#44; index the tiles for each level for Mapserver&#39;s use &nbsp;We start at Level &quot;0&quot; &#40;L0 &#61; 6&quot; resolution&#41; and increase by doubling resolution until we have a single tile at the City view level&#44;&nbsp;&#126;L7.</font>    </p>
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      <font face="Comic Sans MS" size="3">&#42; Mapserver is setup with a multi-level display with cutoffs for each tiled layer at the appropriate scales.</font>    </p>
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      <font face="Comic Sans MS" size="3">&#42; This approach guarantees only four tiles at most &#40;as long as the client viewer pixel width isn&#39;t bigger than the tile pixel size of each tile&#41; are ever retrieved by MapServer to build a composite output image.</font>    </p>
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      <font face="Comic Sans MS" size="3">The first three steps could be automated into a package that ran automatically for example from most MRSID deliverables.</font>    </p>
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      <font face="Comic Sans MS" size="3">Another use case might be DEM analysis&#44; which might require converting into other formats as well as the data originating in some other format besides MRSID.</font>    </p>
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      <font face="Comic Sans MS" size="3">Still another use case might be spectral separation and handling the consequent analysis tasks.</font>    </p>
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      <font face="Comic Sans MS" size="3">Anyway&#44; the list goes on and on I sppose.</font>    </p>
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      <font face="Comic Sans MS" size="3">bobb</font>    </p>
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      &gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;Landon Blake&quot; &lt;lblake@ksninc.com&gt; wrote:<br>    </p>
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            Bob&#44;<o p="#DEFAULT"></o>          </p>
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            What did you have in mind when you said&#160;&#8220;pre-processing&#8221;.<o p="#DEFAULT"></o>          </p>
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              Landon            </p>
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              Office Phone Number: &#40;209&#41; 946-0268            </p>
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              Cell Phone Number: &#40;209&#41; 992-0658            </p>
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              From:            </p>
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              discuss-bounces@lists.osgeo.org &#91;mailto:discuss-bounces@lists.osgeo.org&#93;             </p>
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                On Behalf Of              </p>
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              Bob Basques<br>            </p>
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                Sent:              </p>
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              Monday&#44; August 24&#44; 2009 9:21 AM<br>            </p>
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                To:              </p>
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              OSGeo Discussions</st1><br>            </p>
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                Subject:              </p>
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              RE: &#91;OSGeo-Discuss&#93; Open File Formats andProprietaryAlgorithms            </p>
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            Landon&#44;          </p>
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            Just had another thought . . .          </p>
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            What about setting up a &#40;openSource&#41; tool set specifically for handling Raster images for pre-processing purposes.&nbsp;&#160;Might even be something that publishers could re-distribute with their datasets&#44; as in this processor stack works with our data.          </p>
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            Just thinking on the run here&#44; no detail &#40;or ramifications though through &#91;at all&nbsp;&#160;:c&#41; &#93;&#41;          </p>
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            bobb          </p>
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            &gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;Bob Basques&quot; &lt;Bob.Basques@ci.stpaul.mn.us&gt; wrote:<o p="#DEFAULT"></o>          </p>
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              Landon&#44;            </p>
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              &gt;It would be interesting to come up with a standard structure on a computer file system that could be used to accessed tiled raster data&#44; if this hasn&#8217;t been done already. One the file system structure was defined&#44; it would be fairly easy to write open source software that accessed this structure and provided individual tiles as a service to desktop GIS applications.&#160;&#160;            </p>
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              Hmm&#44; interesting angle&#44; to expand on your idea a bit more&#44; what about a processing suite &#40;or set of suites&#41; that process data for different types of uses&#44; visual display&#44; DEM analysis&#44; etc.&#160;&#160;Each &quot;processor&quot; stack would/could have it&#39;s own rules associated with data resolution vs files sizes&#44; etc.&#160;&#160;            </p>
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              &gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;<st1 st="on" personname="#DEFAULT" w="#DEFAULT">Landon Blake</st1>&quot; &lt;lblake@ksninc.com&gt; wrote:<o p="#DEFAULT"></o>            </p>
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                    Bobb wrote:&#160;&#8220;Here&#39;s my reasoning&#44; we&#39;re never &#40;ever&#63;&#41; going to hit the top end on how big files ever get&#44; resolution just keeps going up and up&#44; so there is always going to be some upper limit that will need to be breached somehow.&#160;&#160;Working out a proper method for segregating the data up front &#40;dare I say it&#41;&#44; as some sort of standard &#40;which can be adjusted as time passes&#41; will make everything work nicely&#44; then all will work with available tools when they are available&#44; if tools to handle larger datasets become available&#44; and the community feels there is a reason/need that these new larger files need to be handled&#44; then they get to change the standard.&#8221;<o p="#DEFAULT"></o><o p="#DEFAULT"></o>                  </p>
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                    I agree with some of the points you are making in your argument Bobb. There is certainly a practical limit to how much you data you should put in a single file. That is why we have lumber cut to 8 foot lengths. You don&#8217;t need a flatbed semi to carry it to your house. :&#93;<o p="#DEFAULT"></o><o p="#DEFAULT"></o>                  </p>
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                    When you refer to a standard for splitting data up front&#44; what do you mean&#63;<o p="#DEFAULT"></o><o p="#DEFAULT"></o>                  </p>
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                    &#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;</o><o p="#DEFAULT"></o>                  </p>
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                    It would be interesting to come up with a standard structure on a computer file system that could be used to accessed tiled raster data&#44; if this hasn&#8217;t been done already. One the file system structure was defined&#44; it would be fairly easy to write open source software that accessed this structure and provided individual tiles as a service to desktop GIS applications.<o p="#DEFAULT"></o><o p="#DEFAULT"></o>                  </p>
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                    Landon<o p="#DEFAULT"></o><o p="#DEFAULT"></o>                  </p>
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                      From: <o p="#DEFAULT"></o>                    </p>
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                      discuss-bounces@lists.osgeo.org &#91;mailto:discuss-bounces@lists.osgeo.org&#93; <o p="#DEFAULT"></o>                    </p>
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                        On Behalf Of <o p="#DEFAULT"></o>                      </p>
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                      Bob Basques<o p="#DEFAULT"></o>                    </p>
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                        Sent: <o p="#DEFAULT"></o>                      </p>
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                      Monday&#44; August 24&#44; 2009 7:33 AM<o p="#DEFAULT"></o>                    </p>
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                        To: <o p="#DEFAULT"></o>                      </p>
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                      OSGeo Discussions                    </p>
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                        Subject: <o p="#DEFAULT"></o>                      </p>
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                      RE: &#91;OSGeo-Discuss&#93; Open File Formats and ProprietaryAlgorithms <o p="#DEFAULT"></o>                    </p>
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                  <o p="#DEFAULT">
                  &#160;</o>                </p>
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                    &#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;</o><o p="#DEFAULT"></o>                  </p>
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                    All&#44; <o p="#DEFAULT"></o>                  </p>
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                    Ok&#44; I&#39;m probably going to get someone irritated&#44; but here goes . . <o p="#DEFAULT"></o>                  </p>
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                  <o p="#DEFAULT">
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                    &#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;</o><o p="#DEFAULT"></o>                  </p>
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                    Why not approach this from the other end of the spectrum and work at making the original files smaller.&#160;&#160;Work with the providers to make the images smaller in the first place&#44; or at least come up with a maximum practical size to work with&#44; I mean if this is the only &#40;or biggest reason&#41; for implementing JP2&#44; then getting folks to make the smaller deliverables seems like a better long term approach. <o p="#DEFAULT"></o>                  </p>
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                    &#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;</o><o p="#DEFAULT"></o>                  </p>
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                    Here&#39;s my reasoning&#44; we&#39;re never &#40;ever&#63;&#41; going to hit the top end on how big files ever get&#44; resolution just keeps going up and up&#44; so there is always going to be some upper limit that will need to be breached somehow.&#160;&#160;Working out a proper method for segregating the data up front &#40;dare I say it&#41;&#44; as some sort of standard &#40;which can be adjusted as time passes&#41; will make everything work nicely&#44; then all will work with available tools when they are available&#44; if tools to handle larger datasets become available&#44; and the community feels there is a reason/need that these new larger files need to be handled&#44; then they get to change the standard. <o p="#DEFAULT"></o>                  </p>
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                    &#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;</o><o p="#DEFAULT"></o>                  </p>
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                    bobb <o p="#DEFAULT"></o>                  </p>
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                    &gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;Fawcett&#44; David&quot; &lt;David.Fawcett@state.mn.us&gt; wrote:<o p="#DEFAULT"></o><o p="#DEFAULT"></o>                  </p>
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                      I realize that there are likely not a large number of people who have<br>the expertise and experience to write this kind of code.&#160;<br><br>Is this a project that should be shopped around for funding&#63;&#160;&#160;Google<br>Summer of Code&#63;&#160;&#160;A grant from our&#160;&#126;benevolent overlord Google&#63;&#160;&#160;Some<br>other foundation or org interested in open data formats&#63;&#160;<br><br>David.<br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: discuss-bounces@lists.osgeo.org<br>&#91;mailto:discuss-bounces@lists.osgeo.org&#93; On Behalf Of Michael P. Gerlek<br>Sent: Thursday&#44; August 20&#44; 2009 4:36 PM<br>To: <st1 st="on" personname="#DEFAULT" w="#DEFAULT">OSGeo Discussions</st1><br>Subject: RE: &#91;OSGeo-Discuss&#93; Open File Formats and Proprietary<br>Algorithms<br>&lt;snip&gt;<br><br><br>&gt; Do you know why there hasn&#39;t been a broader adoption of JP2&#63;<br><br>Not through lack of trying on my part :-&#41;<br><br>I think the two biggest reasons are:<br><br>&#40;1&#41; The algorithms for handling large images in memory really are rocket<br>science&#44; and no one in the FOSS community has gotten the &quot;itch&quot;<br>sufficiently bad enough to go and do the work needed inside the existing<br>open source packages.&#160;&#160;Hopefully someday someone will.<br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Discuss mailing list<br>Discuss@lists.osgeo.org <a href="http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss">http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a><br>_______________________________________________<br>Discuss mailing list<br>Discuss@lists.osgeo.org<br><a href="http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss">http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a><o p="#DEFAULT"></o><o p="#DEFAULT"></o>                    </p>
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                Information provided via electronic media is not guaranteed against defects including translation and transmission errors. If the reader is not the intended recipient&#44; you are hereby notified that any dissemination&#44; distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this information in error&#44; please notify the sender immediately.              </p>
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