As Ian said, the Universities are stuck in a vicious circle. Believe it or not, faculty do try to teach a GIScience that is independent of any particular software package. But the perspective ends up being that ESRI provides both the tools and teaching materials in a consistent manner. If the faculty is focusing on software-independent ideas, then using the most readily available software makes their (and their lab managers' jobs easier).<div>
<br></div><div>What is sorely missing is a suite of teaching materials for FOSS4G. Most of the books for FOSS4G are written for programmers. If you've ever gotten near a GIS course homed in a Geography Department, you know that the students taking the course are decidedly not programmers. (In fact, this is also how ESRI entrenches their software - by enable a massive array of functionality without relying on actual programming).</div>
<div><br></div><div>I surely don't need another project right now, but I've been trolling to find a co-author to create a cookbook-style Python geoprocessing book that uses GDAL/OGR and other FOSS libraries. This would be considered a text for a fairly advanced GIS course.</div>
<div><br></div><div>As for teaching labs, I think we are developing a good experience-base with the OpenGeo LiveDVD. I used that DVD for the workshop I lead at GIS in the Rockies on GeoServer. It worked brilliantly for a simple workshop like that. What's missing is the ability to save the state. University labs frequently require multiple sessions to get through and build on one another - unlike the OpenGeo GeoServer workshop that can be cranked out in 45 minutes and is done.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Maybe we should focus on a GIS on a stick product rather than a LiveDVD?</div><div><br></div><div>-Eric</div><div><br clear="all">-=--=---=----=----=---=--=-=--=---=----=---=--=-=-<br>Eric B. Wolf New! 720-334-7734<br>
USGS Geographer<br>Center of Excellence in GIScience<br>PhD Student <br>CU-Boulder - Geography<br><br>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 8:54 AM, Ian Turton <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ijturton@gmail.com">ijturton@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div class="im">On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 10:32 AM, Peter Batty <<a href="mailto:peter@ebatty.com">peter@ebatty.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> I think that programs to encourage greater use of OSGeo products in<br>
> universities would be a great idea too - ESRI dominate in this area at the<br>
> moment, but this would be another way to get the word out to a broader<br>
> audience.<br>
<br>
</div>Currently universities are locked in a vicious circle with GIS<br>
software in that the students demand we teach them on ESRI software<br>
because that's what employers want and employers use ESRI software as<br>
that is what the universities are teaching the students on.<br>
<br>
The fact that ESRI are giving the software away for free (or nearly<br>
free) doesn't help. I'd love to teach more (undergraduate) students<br>
with FOSS but first I have to find technician time to install the<br>
software on all the lab machines in the university (which is where<br>
ArcMap is provided) for just one course (and any way why can't I use<br>
Arc like everyone else will be the question). Of course we're supposed<br>
to be teaching techniques not software packages but you still spend<br>
most of your time sorting out the software issues.<br>
<br>
So *I* think that universities are a lost cause and we should focus on<br>
high schools - but in many states ESRI has got there before us and has<br>
signed deals with the state to provide arc in schools at no cost to<br>
the school. When I query teachers as to how the kids will do their<br>
homework they usually shrug and point out it's too hard for them to do<br>
on their own or that they can use the school library. May be<br>
elementary schools are the winnable battlefield?<br>
<br>
Ian<br>
<font color="#888888">--<br>
Ian Turton<br>
These are definitely my views and not Penn States!<br>
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