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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Bob,<br>
      <br>
      For what it's worth, and it's the same at OSGeo of course,
      LocationTech & the Eclipse Foundation want projects to want to
      join. It's always optional.<br>
      <br>
      It is unlikely for the foreseeable future that OSGeo would invest
      in the specialized staff, infrastructure, and such to do the kind
      of rigorous IP review that LocationTech & Eclipse Foundation
      projects receive. This isn't a shot against OSGeo, it just is.
      There are other services & infrastructure that are similar.<br>
      <br>
      The good news is, so long as an OSGeo project was comfortable
      doing the trademark assignment (part of the process), then a
      project could be dual listed fairly comfortably. I don't think the
      benefit that OSGeo gets from projects is diminished in this case.
      If this is comfortable to everyone, I could see LocationTech
      projects do the same and list at OSGeo.<br>
      <br>
      Andrew<br>
      <br>
      On 17/09/14 08:08, Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul) wrote:<br>
    </div>
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cite="mid:C9CEA89772DA74488B5A5B6EB17DC48106861243@055-CH1MPN1-002.055d.mgd.msft.net"
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      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans
            MS"">All,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans
            MS""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans
            MS"">How would the separation of projects occur between
            those in OSGeo already vs those wanting to be LocationTech
            certified as well.  I would imagine that some would not feel
            like they need to be certified by both.  What happens in
            this case?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans
            MS""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans
            MS"">Also, what are the longer term differences between
            LocationTech and OSGeo with regard to keeping code legally
            free of proprietary code, what’s the followup on the
            Location tech side?  I’m more in tune with OSGeo processes
            BTW.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans
            MS""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans
            MS"">Bobb<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans
            MS""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans
            MS""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans
            MS""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
            <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:discuss-bounces@lists.osgeo.org">discuss-bounces@lists.osgeo.org</a>
            [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:discuss-bounces@lists.osgeo.org">mailto:discuss-bounces@lists.osgeo.org</a>]
            <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jachym Cepicky<br>
            <b>Sent:</b> Monday, September 15, 2014 4:59 AM<br>
            <b>To:</b> Jody Garnett<br>
            <b>Cc:</b> OSGeo Discussions; Daniel Morissette<br>
            <b>Subject:</b> Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Hacking OSGeo<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p style="margin-left:.5in">What about speeding OSGeo incubation
          in a way, that projects, who made it through locationtech,
          would have to work only at the differences between both
          incubations, afaik the community aspect and maybe something
          else, in order to make it to OSGeo project? It would be more
          easy for them to make it through OSGeo incubation, things
          would be speeding up a bit<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p style="margin-left:.5in">I'm I completely wrong?<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p style="margin-left:.5in">Jachym<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p style="margin-left:.5in">Send from cellphone<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p style="margin-left:.5in">-- <br>
          Jachym Cepicky<br>
          e-mail: jachym.cepicky gmail com<br>
          URL: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://les-ejk.cz">http://les-ejk.cz</a><br>
          GPG: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="http://les-ejk.cz/pgp/JachymCepicky.pgp">http://les-ejk.cz/pgp/JachymCepicky.pgp</a><o:p></o:p></p>
        <p style="margin-left:.5in">Give your code freedom with PyWPS -<a
            moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="http://pywps.wald.intevation.org">http://pywps.wald.intevation.org</a><o:p></o:p></p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">On Sep 15, 2014
            7:55 AM, "Jody Garnett" <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:jody.garnett@gmail.com">jody.garnett@gmail.com</a>>
            wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Good
              questions/discussion:<o:p></o:p></p>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Going to
                chime in as I enjoy both working with OSGeo incubation
                and LocationTech. I am a couple timezones west of Daniel
                but sleep is on the horizon.<o:p></o:p></p>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">TLDR: I am
                  not 100% positive of either organisation, which is why
                  I am trying to make them better.<o:p></o:p></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">--<br
                    clear="all">
                  <o:p></o:p></p>
                <div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Jody
                      Garnett<o:p></o:p></p>
                  </div>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">On
                      Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 4:44 PM, Massimiliano Cannata
                      <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:massimiliano.cannata@supsi.ch"
                        target="_blank">massimiliano.cannata@supsi.ch</a>>
                      wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
                    <p style="margin-left:.5in">As you said the final
                      goal is the same: open source Geospatial software
                      affirmation. And this is the best thing I can wish
                      to all of us.<o:p></o:p></p>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Agreed,
                        and I was very heartened by aspects of foss4g
                        this year.<o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
                      #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
                      6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
                      <p style="margin-left:.5in">Nevertheless what I
                        just have not clear is: what location teach do
                        differently with respect to osgeo? <o:p></o:p></p>
                    </blockquote>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">A
                        lot of questions :) The two organisations share
                        the same goals, but have different talents with
                        respect to outreach.<o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">I am
                        going to try and do a single Pro/Con for each
                        organisation just so you can see how they
                        differ. I suspect this is a better conversation
                        over beer or coffee since I cannot tell what
                        kind of differences you are interested in?<o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">OSGeo
                        Incubation<o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Pro:
                        OSGeo incubation has the advantage of being less
                        formal, and thus able to adapt to the needs of
                        the projects in incubation today. This message
                        gets lots repeatedly, which makes me a bit sad.
                        I usually pick on my own projects, but perhaps
                        the pycsw crew would not mind being used as an
                        example. We have an "checklist" item about user
                        / developer interaction, with an example
                        provided of user list collaboration around
                        releases. This example is dated and does not fit
                        with an amazing aspect of the pycsw story -
                        pycsw have great downstream projects fulfilling
                        this role (risk mitigation around release based
                        on bug reports, testing, collaboration). OSGeo
                        incubation has the flexibility to recognise this
                        value ... and get on with life.<o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Con:
                        OSGeo incubation has a look but don't touch
                        attitude - we like to leave projects as we found
                        them and not disturb the way each projects is
                        already functioning. This is great "low impact"
                        approach for when we were taking on fully-fored
                        projects like MapServer, MapGuide and PostGIS.
                        What could possibly be the drawback? We are not
                        in position to offer much guidance to
                        organisations that are new to open source
                        struggling to know where to start.<o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Contrast:
                        We are great at reviewing project viability to
                        try and protect OSGeo users from adopting
                        projects that have gone stale.<o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">LocationTech
                        Incubation<o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Pro:
                        LocationTech is a working group in an already
                        established Software Foundation. They have a
                        long history of teaching new projects how to do
                        OpenSource. Many of the conventions we work with
                        in our open source projects (voting +1 to accept
                        a new committer on a project) have been
                        automated into a developer portal. This
                        structure can help those new to open source feel
                        confidence they are doing it right.<o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Cons:
                        The workload associated with checking
                        License/Headers is both harder and easier then
                        OSGeo. There are staff to do the checking, but
                        you need to submit each thing you depend on -
                        even down to the build tools used to compile,
                        build diagrams or generate docs. While I can
                        kind of respect this (protecting potential
                        developers from needing to purchase tools) was
                        not prepared for the workload.<o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Contrast:
                        Eclipse incubation does not say much about if a
                        project is stale.<o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
                      #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
                      6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">does
                        it somehow overlap with incubation or not? What
                        are the distinctive features?<o:p></o:p></p>
                    </blockquote>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">There
                        is an overlap, but differences:<o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">* A
                        project graduating out of OSGeo ...would have to
                        do a formal IP check to graduate out of
                        LocationTech. There is paid staff to do the
                        work, but it is still a lot of work to submit
                        all the code. I think there is like a TM check
                        and other stuff. Lots of work, with some
                        assistance on offer.<o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">* A
                        project graduating out of LocationTech ... would
                        have to do organisation viability, documentation
                        checks, user/developer collaboration and
                        similar. Soft concerns but hard to do.<o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">They
                        also have a similar issue: projects are (quite
                        rightly) more focused on the next release and
                        any publicity .. then actually completing
                        incubation.<o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
                      #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
                      6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
                      <p style="margin-left:.5in">Personally I wonder
                        why some of the most eminent person of osgeo
                        (like you) decided to work into location teach?
                        Don't misunderstood me, I'm not judging nor
                        criticizing,  I'd just like to understand
                        opportunities or aspect or services not found in
                        osgeo and that experts and leaders found there.<o:p></o:p></p>
                    </blockquote>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">When
                        the talks go up, skip to the end of the
                        LocationTech projects you can see leads from
                        several projects answer your question.<o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">For
                        me personally the motivation is the same: foster
                        new projects as the best way of fulfilling our
                        OSGeo mandate / LocationTech charter.<o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">For
                        me as uDig project lead:<o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">a)
                        The uDig project always wanted to join Eclipse:
                        since it is built with Eclipse "Rich Client
                        Platform (RCP)" the best way to attract new RCP
                        developers is to take uDig closer to where the
                        developers are.<o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">b)
                        Is in need of a new home as Refractions does not
                        appear active<o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
                      #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
                      6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
                      <p style="margin-left:.5in">Sorry in advance for
                        my eventual  ignorance, but I think this would
                        help people better understand the discussion and
                        the future of osgeo.<o:p></o:p></p>
                    </blockquote>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Thanks
                        for the questions Maxi. If you want a front row
                        seat you could always talk to the OSGeo Board
                        about being the Guest on the LocationTech
                        meetings. This position was created help with
                        communication, and I guess this email thread
                        indicates a need.<o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">The
                        nice thing is that all these software
                        organisations are here to help (OSGeo, Eclipse
                        Foundation, Apache Foundation, Free Software
                        Foundation, Linux Foundation). This ability to
                        play well with others is something I respect
                        about OSGeo. We are not worried about our
                        projects being hosted on GitHub, or Marble GIS
                        working with KDE Foundation.<o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">--<o:p></o:p></p>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Jody<o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">PS.
                        I wrote a <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.lisasoft.com/blog/programming-public-osgeo-and-locationtech"
                          target="_blank">blog post</a> of some of my
                        culture shock when first starting with
                        LocationTech. I have learned a bit since then so
                        take that link with a grain of salt.<o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">PPS.
                          I volunteered to help with foss4g-na, no idea
                          what I am in for, but if you have any
                          ideas/suggestions please send them to me.<o:p></o:p></p>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
                      #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
                      6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
                      <p style="margin-left:.5in">Maxi<o:p></o:p></p>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Il
                          14-set-2014 17:05 "Daniel Morissette" <<a
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:dmorissette@mapgears.com"
                            target="_blank">dmorissette@mapgears.com</a>>
                          ha scritto:<o:p></o:p></p>
                        <div>
                          <div>
                            <blockquote
                              style="border:none;border-left:solid
                              #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
                              6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
                              <p class="MsoNormal"
                                style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"
                                style="margin-left:.5in">FWIW I'm happy
                                to hear that there was such a face to
                                face discussion. I believe that open
                                communication on the issues will be the
                                best way to address the fears and find
                                ways to move forward in the best
                                interest of the overall worldwide
                                community of people, businesses,
                                institutions, etc who have a common
                                interest in seeing free and open source
                                geospatial software strive.<br>
                                <br>
                                Keep in mind that we all come to this
                                model of software development for
                                different reasons (business, academic,
                                philosophical, hobby, etc.), but in the
                                end we're all working towards a similar
                                objective, so there is no fear to be
                                had, just different means of reaching a
                                common objective, and since the result
                                of everybody's actions is better
                                free/open source software, everybody
                                will benefit in the end.<br>
                                <br>
                                Not sure if I was able to relay my
                                thoughts properly... maybe I need a bit
                                more sleep.<br>
                                <br>
                                Cheers all<br>
                                <br>
                                Daniel<br>
                                <br>
                                <br>
                                On 14-09-14 10:25 AM, Jachym Cepicky
                                wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.5in">Guys,<br>
                                <br>
                                as long as I understand it: "some
                                members of the community" are scared<br>
                                of LocationTech "taking over" whatever
                                (FOSS4G conference, OSGeo<br>
                                projects and community). This can be
                                based on real action, taken on<br>
                                either site, unofficial statement,
                                misunderstandings or personal<br>
                                dislikes.<br>
                                <br>
                                Yesterday, we had short (about 2hours)
                                face 2 face discussion with<br>
                                Andrew here in PDX (me, Vasile, Jeff and
                                Gerald) and I personally<br>
                                believe, that it is not in interest of
                                LocationTech to "crush" OSGeo<br>
                                or FOSS4G conference. It was clearly
                                stated, that LocationTech would<br>
                                like to contribute to FOSS4G and make it
                                to better conference,<br>
                                regarding (again) "some remarks" of
                                "some members of the community"<br>
                                (including myself), that the way, FOSS4G
                                is organised, does not<br>
                                necessary meet some of the community
                                aspects, we would like to stress.<br>
                                I would like to note, that the
                                discussion was very open on both sides,<br>
                                still calm and productive.<br>
                                <br>
                                "To contribute" of course means "to
                                work" and LocationTech is anything<br>
                                but volunteer driven organisation. It
                                has been stated, that FOSS4G-NA<br>
                                next year will be organised primarily by
                                LocationTech, but OSGeo willl<br>
                                be represented clearly and (so to say)
                                loudly.<br>
                                <br>
                                This could be one of the firsts steps
                                towards closer cooperation<br>
                                between LocationTech and OSGeo.<br>
                                <br>
                                Everybody is aware, that on some points,
                                LocationTech is not that<br>
                                good, as OSGeo currently is. OSGeo is
                                certainly failing in other<br>
                                things. Looking for ways, how to
                                strengthen common strengths and<br>
                                weaken our weaknesses should have
                                "non-zero-sum" effect.<br>
                                <br>
                                We, as OSGeo shall later evaluate,
                                whether the price for helping us<br>
                                LocationTech with conferences
                                (regardless if on regional or global<br>
                                level), was too hight or quite ok. In
                                case of disagreement, we shall<br>
                                try to find solution for the next time.<br>
                                <br>
                                In the worst case, we find out, that
                                cooperation is not possible and<br>
                                everybody can go it's way than.<br>
                                <br>
                                I hope, you get my point(s) and that I
                                did not misinterpreted<br>
                                anything, what was said.<br>
                                <br>
                                Thank you<br>
                                <br>
                                <br>
                                Jachym<br>
                                <br>
                                <o:p></o:p></p>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"
                                style="margin-left:.5in"><br>
                                -- <br>
                                Daniel Morissette<br>
                                T: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                  href="tel:%2B1%20418-696-5056%20%23201"
                                  target="_blank">+1 418-696-5056 #201</a><br>
                                <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                  href="http://www.mapgears.com/"
                                  target="_blank">http://www.mapgears.com/</a><br>
                                Provider of Professional MapServer
                                Support since 2000</p>
                            </blockquote>
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                    </blockquote>
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      </div>
    </blockquote>
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