<html>
  <head>
    <meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
  </head>
  <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Jeff,<br>
      <br>
      Again, you make statements like you have below about
      me/LocationTech smoothly courting/calculated/etc going after
      OSGeo's only source of revenue. Perhaps you would like to present
      your evidence for making such negative statements? <br>
      <br>
      Bear in mind that the ample evidence to the contrary is public.
      Dave & Robert have told their stories about how & why they
      LocationTech as a conference organizer for their 2017 bids.
      Michael Terner shared his story too. There was nothing untoward
      involved, and everything has been talked about publicly.<br>
      <br>
      The budget details for those bids are public too and as generous
      as a conservative budget allows. The payment is very much in line
      with the best payments ever received from a FOSS4G, and OSGeo is
      not on the hook for a loss should one occur.<br>
      <br>
      Making such assertions with no evidence to back them up, against
      much evidence to the contrary is unfounded and very
      unprofessional.<br>
      <br>
      The <a
href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/15x1Q3J9OPM95jEkeZhYlU0xB5uO9V9NCOI28g5B_Yqc/edit">FAQ
        we published</a> publicly makes the motives very clear. People
      like myself, Dave McIlhagga, Jody Garnett, and many others have
      been deeply involved in OSGeo & FOSS4G since the beginning in
      many capacities. (so were the Founders of LocationTech for what
      that's worth) All of what we have done is public record. We never
      left the community. We care about FOSS4G and care how it is run.
      We are valued members of the FOSS4G & OSGeo communities, have
      equal right to participate, and not the invading outsiders you are
      attempting to portray us as.<br>
      <br>
      Again, you imply something untoward regarding why LocationTech was
      founded and exists. It was created & exists to fill a gap. And
      3 years on it is doing a pretty good job of that. As I have said,
      I am not aware of any harm to OSGeo that has come from
      LocationTech. There was much goodness specified clearly in the FAQ
      stating plainly how LocationTech has helped OSGeo. You are welcome
      to share your evidence to the contrary.<br>
      <br>
      As just one more example we didn't put in the FAQ, after a  very
      successful FOSS4G NA 2015, $6K USD was paid to OSGeo from
      LocationTech to help support it. The money was provided with no
      strings attached for OSGeo to spend how it see's fit.<br>
      <br>
      Collaboration happens between OSGeo & LocationTech every day
      without fuss. People shuffle back and forth across the imaginary
      border without even thinking about it. It is one ecosystem.<br>
      <br>
      I wish you'd see & acknowledge the goodness and positive
      things from LocationTech. At the very least, without any evidence
      of anything negative, you should really stop.<br>
      <br>
      Andrea<br>
      <br>
      On 13/11/15 14:24, Jeff McKenna wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote cite="mid:5645E488.8020806@gatewaygeomatics.com"
      type="cite">Hi Andrea,
      <br>
      <br>
      You seem to value the OSGeo community so much, so much in fact
      that you would smoothly court all 3 of our bidders for OSGeo's
      only source of revenue and publicity all year, our beloved global
      FOSS4G event.  It is true that it is "ridiculous", from an
      organization that (apparently formerly) focused on commerce, to
      ask OSGeo to pay you (90,000 USD), to take control of OSGeo's only
      event (worth 1,000,000 USD), and then think that this is a fine
      since you offer (my answer: a polite no thank you) of handling
      losses for OSGeo's FOSS4G event, in maybe one of the strongest
      regions for attendees in the world?  If we are speaking of
      commerce, this doesn't make sense.
      <br>
      <br>
      I think Maxi said it well, that we all are trying to understand
      your motives here.  How about an MoU together, exchange of
      official letters, big press release, creating a working group of
      half LocationTech and half OSGeo board members, an exchange of
      talks at each others events, become the sustaining sponsor of
      OSGeo; instead, here we are.
      <br>
      <br>
      If you value the OSGeo community so much, why would you create a
      separate foundation with the exact same goals, and then later come
      back to the other foundation saying "no, we love you.  Give us the
      right to run your event".  Ha, pardon?
      <br>
      <br>
      -jeff
      <br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <br>
      On 2015-11-12 7:35 PM, Andrea Ross wrote:
      <br>
      <blockquote type="cite">Jeff,
        <br>
        <br>
        It is really hard to discuss this topic because you make stuff
        up. The
        <br>
        concerns stem from the fantasy rather than reality.
        <br>
        <br>
        The FAQ produced recently
        <br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/15x1Q3J9OPM95jEkeZhYlU0xB5uO9V9NCOI28g5B_Yqc/edit?usp=drive_web"><https://docs.google.com/document/d/15x1Q3J9OPM95jEkeZhYlU0xB5uO9V9NCOI28g5B_Yqc/edit?usp=drive_web></a>
        <br>
        does a pretty good job covering the situation.
        <br>
        <br>
        In 3 years, so far as I know, absolutely no harm has come to
        OSGeo as a
        <br>
        result of LocationTech, and certainly not from any
        official/intentional
        <br>
        actions. On the contrary, there's a nice body of ever growing
        benefits.
        <br>
        <br>
        Regarding your new claims:
        <br>
        <br>
          * The press releases & charter for LocationTech have not
        changed.
        <br>
            They're all still up where they always were and haven't been
        <br>
            modified. (seriously?!)
        <br>
          * LocationTech & OSGeo have had formal relations for some
        time as Jody
        <br>
            notes. There is all kinds of collaboration happening
        frequently and
        <br>
            people are fine with it.
        <br>
          * We gave many examples in the FAQ about LocationTech helping
        OSGeo.
        <br>
            I'm not even sure that (positive list) was calculated
        necessarily as
        <br>
            much as things that arise matter of course from the things
        the group
        <br>
            does.
        <br>
          * The evidence is for all to see in the bid proposals,
        LocationTech
        <br>
            has offered to cover losses and promising payments on par
        with the
        <br>
            best payments from past FOSS4G's. The numbers are based on a
        <br>
            conservative budget. When you also factor that LocationTech
        has
        <br>
            sponsored in which money has flowed to OSGeo, your claims
        <br>
            LocationTech is setting sights on OSGeo income are even more
        ridiculous.
        <br>
          * As Jody & others have noted, the Tour is something that
        was born out
        <br>
            of LocationTech. It is inclusive to any who want to
        participate. The
        <br>
            FAQ covers why LocationTech members & projects care
        about FOSS4G,
        <br>
            and it's very reasonable.
        <br>
        <br>
        It's worth saying that people involved with LocationTech have
        also been
        <br>
        involved with OSGeo for some time. Your efforts to portray them
        as
        <br>
        outsiders is bogus. They are as welcome as anyone else to
        participate.
        <br>
        <br>
        I'm not sure what else to say. It's such shame to have this be
        <br>
        needlessly misrepresented.
        <br>
        <br>
        Andrea
        <br>
        <br>
        On 12/11/15 21:58, Jeff McKenna wrote:
        <br>
        <blockquote type="cite">Hi Cameron,
          <br>
          <br>
          I am also glad to speak of this publicly, this is a very
          important topic.
          <br>
          <br>
          I have been thinking more and more about Rob's response (thank
          you so
          <br>
          much Rob for taking the time to speak with me on that).  I
          will speak
          <br>
          honestly here again, and I don't mean to offend:
          <br>
          <br>
          I am now left with a realization that, what I always thought
          of
          <br>
          LocationTech as created to help commercially-friendly
          geospatial
          <br>
          software, is wrong.  I always just assumed that they filled a
          nice
          <br>
          hole in the equation, by focusing on business needs.  As was
          pointed
          <br>
          out to me today, their goals now are in fact the exact same as
          <br>
          OSGeo's.  In fact, I have to really dig now for the
          LocationTech's
          <br>
          former tagline of "commercially-friendly.." on their website,
          but I
          <br>
          found the initial press releases for LocationTech and there it
          is in
          <br>
          the second sentence, and then entire paragraphs on that goal. 
          Did
          <br>
          something change there that I missed?
          <br>
          <br>
          So now, yes, I am confused.
          <br>
          <br>
          And no wonder that, from those initial 2012/2013 press
          releases from
          <br>
          LocationTech, fast forward to 2015 and they are contacting
          each of our
          <br>
          3 bidding teams for FOSS4G 2017, I'm left with a sense of
          surprise and
          <br>
          shock.  The overlap exists, we are the same foundation, and,
          to make
          <br>
          matters more pressing, LocationTech has politely declined any
          interest
          <br>
          in creating their own global event for their community, and
          set their
          <br>
          sights on OSGeo's only real source of revenue and global
          publicity,
          <br>
          our yearly FOSS4G event. Now the pressure is on, as this 2017
          <br>
          discussion involves huge money, finances, brands, people's
          jobs, two
          <br>
          communities, and our beloved FOSS4G event that we have
          painfully built
          <br>
          to be a global brand.  And yes passions are flowing, strong
          words of
          <br>
          "fear", "bullying", "muck" are being dropped, and I have no
          doubt
          <br>
          someone soon will say "inclusive" or "exclusive", and then
          "code of
          <br>
          conduct", oh let's not forget "trademark" and even "lawyer"
          (to be
          <br>
          honest, in the past week I've heard each of these words about
          this
          <br>
          topic).  It's all an absolute mess, if you ask my opinion.
          <br>
          <br>
          My vision is to work with foundations and organizations all
          around the
          <br>
          world, locally or globally.  OSGeo has done a great job on
          this,
          <br>
          through our (admittedly slow process for some people) of MoUs,
          and
          <br>
          building those relationships through designated committees or
          special
          <br>
          sessions at FOSS4G events.
          <br>
          <br>
          This sudden thrust of LocationTech, by contacting each of our
          3
          <br>
          bidders for 2017, is very calculated on their side, but on
          OSGeo's
          <br>
          side, this is a hard pill to swallow so fast.
          <br>
          <br>
          I actually don't think it is OSGeo that should be the ones
          talking
          <br>
          now.  We haven't changed, we have always put on FOSS4G each
          year,
          <br>
          moving around the globe.  We put community first and foremost,
          our
          <br>
          community is very strong.  I think our community is what
          attracts
          <br>
          LocationTech to OSGeo, why they strategically contacted each
          2017
          <br>
          bidders, but I'd love to hear it from their mouths.
          <br>
          <br>
          So I don't believe it is OSGeo that should be the ones
          explaining
          <br>
          ourselves now.  I think this is the time for LocationTech to
          explain
          <br>
          their vision, how it has changed over the years, and how it
          sees
          <br>
          itself in the ecosystem, because OSGeo has been around now a
          long time
          <br>
          and their is no confusion about OSGeo.
          <br>
          <br>
          In regards to the current situation, I wish we could start
          with an
          <br>
          MoU, work slowly on building a relationship, do not
          strategically
          <br>
          contact bidders or groups on either side, but work together on
          <br>
          building this ecosystem - maybe offering each other a "topic
          talk"
          <br>
          extended session at each of our events, maybe discussing
          becoming a
          <br>
          sustaining sponsor of each other's foundation, maybe having a
          shared
          <br>
          "working group" on this involving both LocationTech and OSGeo
          board
          <br>
          members.
          <br>
          <br>
          I've done a lot of writing the last couple of days.  I hope
          this at
          <br>
          least helps explain what is on my mind.
          <br>
          <br>
          Oh, as some privately enjoy writing to me and saying I am
          wrong, well
          <br>
          yes, I am often wrong, but at least I am speaking publicly,
          and trying
          <br>
          so hard always to make sure that OSGeo and FOSS4G are properly
          <br>
          represented.
          <br>
          <br>
          -jeff
          <br>
          <br>
          <br>
          <br>
          <br>
          <br>
          <br>
          On 2015-11-12 4:04 PM, Cameron Shorter wrote:
          <br>
          <blockquote type="cite">Hi Jeff, Venka, Jody, Rob,
            <br>
            <br>
            Thanks for initiating this discussion and starting to put
            ideas out for
            <br>
            public discussion.
            <br>
            <br>
            Jeff, Venka, I get the impression from your emails that you
            are
            <br>
            concerned that LocationTech might "steal" community
            mind-share, and in
            <br>
            particular take control of key OSGeo tasks such as FOSS4G
            and in the
            <br>
            process change focus of FOSS4G into a more commercial event,
            which
            <br>
            increases prices, and looses core community driven focus. Am
            I right? Or
            <br>
            could you please clarify.
            <br>
            <br>
            For the record, at the time I was disappointed at the time
            that Location
            <br>
            Tech was created, and the functionality of Location Tech
            didn't get
            <br>
            created under the umbrella of OSGeo. However both
            organisations exist
            <br>
            now, and I can see that in moving forward that both
            organisations can
            <br>
            exist successfully together and complement each other. (+1
            to Rob's
            <br>
            comments).
            <br>
            <br>
            A few years back, when both Jeff and I were on the board, we
            co-authored
            <br>
            "Board Priorities" [1]. (Ok, I did a lot of writing, but the
            board did
            <br>
            contribute and sign off on it).  Prior boards have similarly
            outlined
            <br>
            OSGeo's priorities which have been embedded in our official
            documents.
            <br>
            The "Board Priorities" include focus on OSGeo acting as a
            "low capital,
            <br>
            volunteer focused organisation", and acknowledge that a the
            role of the
            <br>
            "high capital" business model is better accomplished by
            LocationTech.
            <br>
            <br>
            Jeff, Venka, Jody and others on the board, what is your
            vision for
            <br>
            OSGeo's future direction, and in particular, what is your
            vision for a
            <br>
            future relationship with Location Tech? Should OSGeo revise
            our focus
            <br>
            and goals? It might help to start by being specific. What
            should OSGeo
            <br>
            take responsibility for? What should Location Tech take
            responsibility
            <br>
            for? Are the organisations appropriately structured and
            resourced to
            <br>
            take on that responsibility? If not, what should change to
            make that
            <br>
            happen?
            <br>
            <br>
            With regards to private (and threatening emails), I suggest
            replying
            <br>
            with something like:
            <br>
            "Thanks for your comments, you have some valid concerns. I'd
            like to
            <br>
            respond to your suggestions publicly so others can join in
            and we can
            <br>
            deal with your suggestions appropriately. Is it ok if I do
            so?"
            <br>
            If you don't get the ok, don't deal with the suggestion. But
            I suggest
            <br>
            refrain from implication of bullying as it implies that
            LocationTech is
            <br>
            playing dirty tactics, which reflects badly on LocationTech
            and OSGeo as
            <br>
            it suggests that the two organisations are unable to resolve
            issues
            <br>
            professionally. (I'm hoping that mentioned "bullying" is
            just a case of
            <br>
            some people getting a bit more passionate that maybe they
            should).
            <br>
            <br>
            Warm regards, Cameron
            <br>
            <br>
            [1]
            <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Board_of_Directors#Board_Priorities">http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Board_of_Directors#Board_Priorities</a>
            <br>
            <br>
            On 13/11/2015 3:53 am, Rob Emanuele wrote:
            <br>
            <blockquote type="cite">Hi Jeff,
              <br>
              <br>
              You are right, commercial-friendliness certainly does play
              a part in
              <br>
              LocationTech. The way I've seen that enacted is by the use
              of the
              <br>
              Eclipse Foundation's legal department to ensure that the
              projects
              <br>
              which are supported by LocationTech are declared by a
              legal team to be
              <br>
              free of proprietary or wrongly-licensed code. In this way,
              commercial
              <br>
              entities can use the projects with some assurance that
              they will not
              <br>
              be sued down the line for code that was not actually open
              in the way
              <br>
              they thought it was.
              <br>
              <br>
              Also, there is a steering committee that makes decisions
              about how the
              <br>
              budget will be used. The budget mainly consists of member
              company's
              <br>
              dues. The members of the steering committee are decided by
              membership
              <br>
              level (large membership gets representation on the
              steering committee)
              <br>
              as well as a lower-membership level elected committee.
              There is also
              <br>
              representation by the developers, who vote independently
              of any
              <br>
              company and are there to represent the committers on the
              project. For
              <br>
              more information, you can read through some links here:
              <br>
              <br>
              <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.locationtech.org/charter">https://www.locationtech.org/charter</a>
              <br>
              <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.locationtech.org/election2015">https://www.locationtech.org/election2015</a>
              <br>
              <br>
              In practice, as a maintainer of an open source project and
              developer,
              <br>
              what LocationTech has meant to me is support for my
              project in ways
              <br>
              that are not centered around business. To me it's been a
              place where
              <br>
              I've gotten to collaborate with similar open source
              projects and have
              <br>
              my project be promoted through events and other channels;
              for instance
              <br>
              I participate in Google Summer of Code and Facebook Open
              Academy as a
              <br>
              mentor through the Eclipse Foundation. Perhaps these are
              needs that
              <br>
              can also be served by OSGeo, but they have in practice
              been met by
              <br>
              LocationTech. From my perspective as a project lead and
              open source
              <br>
              developer, that there are multiple channels that can
              potentially
              <br>
              support me and my project is a great thing and signs of a
              healthy
              <br>
              domain.
              <br>
              <br>
              I did not start LocationTech. So for me it's not a
              question of, why
              <br>
              should LocationTech be created when there is already
              OSGeo;
              <br>
              LocationTech already exists, and I don't think it's up to
              me to
              <br>
              question it's existence. Nor do I think it's a useful
              exercise to
              <br>
              question the existence of something that clearly has
              support and is
              <br>
              supporting others. I can only decide which organizations I
              believe in
              <br>
              and support, and what I can get out of those organizations
              as far as
              <br>
              them supporting me. So on a personal level, my thoughts
              are that both
              <br>
              OSGeo and LocationTech are good organizations. I'd like to
              find ways
              <br>
              to support both organizations, and find ways both
              organizations can
              <br>
              support me and my project.
              <br>
              <br>
              On a more general level, I'm against centralization.
              Having diversity
              <br>
              in governance structures, funding models and support
              channels is a
              <br>
              good thing, and I don't want there to be only one "true"
              organization
              <br>
              that I can look to for support. However, like I mentioned,
              the ideal
              <br>
              would be that those organizations could figure out how to
              use their
              <br>
              difference skill sets to work together on making the
              community as a
              <br>
              whole move forward. And that is what I am hoping OSGeo and
              <br>
              LocationTech can do (as well as any other related
              organizations).
              <br>
              <br>
              Jody did a talk at FOSS4G NA 2015 on some of the
              differences between
              <br>
              LocationTech and OSGeo, I recommend it:
              <br>
              <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://youtu.be/sdpEa6XdQEo">https://youtu.be/sdpEa6XdQEo</a>
              <br>
              <br>
              Best,
              <br>
              Rob
              <br>
              <br>
              On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 10:54 AM, Jeff McKenna
              <br>
              <<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jmckenna@gatewaygeomatics.com">jmckenna@gatewaygeomatics.com</a>
              <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jmckenna@gatewaygeomatics.com"><mailto:jmckenna@gatewaygeomatics.com></a>>
              <br>
              wrote:
              <br>
              <br>
                  Hi Rob,
              <br>
              <br>
                  Thank you for your very thoughtful response.  You
              summarize the
              <br>
                  situation very well.  I think talking openly like this
              on this
              <br>
                  topic, is the only way to make this all work.
              <br>
              <br>
                  It sounds like I am wrong about LocationTech's goals;
              at the same
              <br>
                  time then, if that is the case, that LocationTech is
              not about
              <br>
                  commerce (doesn't "commercially friendly" encourage
              business
              <br>
                  interest?), then what was the need to create a
              separate new
              <br>
                  foundation, also focused on growing Open Source
              geospatial
              <br>
              software?
              <br>
              <br>
                  I hope we can speak openly here Rob, I do not mean any
              disrespect
              <br>
                  to you personally or to LocationTech (some take it
              personal).
              <br>
                  Please share here the reasons you see to have 2
              foundations
              <br>
                  focused on the same goal.
              <br>
              <br>
                  Thanks,
              <br>
              <br>
                  -jeff
              <br>
              <br>
              <br>
              <br>
              <br>
                  On 2015-11-12 11:37 AM, Rob Emanuele wrote:
              <br>
              <br>
                      Hi Jeff,
              <br>
              <br>
                      I'm sorry to hear you are being bullied in private
              messages.
              <br>
              It is
              <br>
                      perhaps best to bring in the Code of Conduct
              committee to help
              <br>
                      handle
              <br>
                      this; direct threats and private bulling tactics
              seem in
              <br>
                      violation with
              <br>
                      the CoC, and there should be steps taken to ensure
              that our
              <br>
                      community
              <br>
                      doesn't have bulling in our midst that goes
              unaddressed.
              <br>
              <br>
                      I'm disappointed that you take LocationTech's core
              goal as "to
              <br>
                      promote
              <br>
                      business and give those businesses a stage". Your
              point of
              <br>
                      view and
              <br>
                      behavior on the lists makes more sense knowing
              that, though;
              <br>
                      if you
              <br>
                      believe that LocationTech is really about
              promoting the
              <br>
                      businesses, and
              <br>
                      not the greater community, then having
              LocationTech involved
              <br>
                      in the
              <br>
                      FOSS4G conferences would diminish the non-business
              community
              <br>
                      members'
              <br>
                      role in the conference, which would be a Bad
              thing. However,
              <br>
                      as a member
              <br>
                      of the LocationTech PMC and someone who was/is
              involved in the
              <br>
                      FOSS4G NA
              <br>
                      2015 and FOSS4G NA 2016 process, as well as
              someone involved
              <br>
                      in the
              <br>
                      FOSS4G 2017 Philadelphia bid, I want to assure you
              that is not
              <br>
                      the case.
              <br>
              <br>
                      There is real focus and real work being done at
              LocationTech
              <br>
                      to help the
              <br>
                      community of developers and users of FOSS4G. In
              this instance
              <br>
                      I'm using
              <br>
                      FOSS4G for what the acronym actually means, Free
              and Open
              <br>
              Source
              <br>
                      Software for Geospatial, not referring to the
              conference
              <br>
              that has
              <br>
                      captured that name. Both LocationTech and OSGeo
              exist to
              <br>
                      support FOSS4G,
              <br>
                      and the greater community (greater then both of
              those
              <br>
                      organizations)
              <br>
                      that use and develop FOSS4G. There are differences
              in the
              <br>
                      organizations
              <br>
                      for sure, and I think highlighting those
              differences and really
              <br>
                      understanding how they serve the community in
              different ways is
              <br>
                      important. The ideal scenario that I see is that
              both
              <br>
                      organizations
              <br>
                      would use those differences to collaborate and
              have a
              <br>
                      sum-greater-than-it's-parts type of support system
              for FOSS4G.
              <br>
                      Instead,
              <br>
                      we have a situation where there's distrust, finger
              pointing,
              <br>
              and
              <br>
                      political "power plays" against each other. We
              have the
              <br>
                      president of one
              <br>
                      of the organizations characterizing the core goal
              of the other
              <br>
                      organization in a dangerously wrong way. We have
              decisions and
              <br>
                      discussions about a million dollar revenue
              generating
              <br>
                      conference focused
              <br>
                      on that million dollars, rather then how to ensure
              that
              <br>
                      conference does
              <br>
                      the best job possible at supporting and pushing
              forward the
              <br>
                      community.
              <br>
                      We have the precious resource that is the energy
              of volunteers
              <br>
                      being
              <br>
                      spent on political infighting rather than on
              collaboration
              <br>
              towards
              <br>
                      serving the community. I'm not sure the best path
              forward for
              <br>
                      this, but
              <br>
                      I want to declare that the situation as I see it
              is bad for the
              <br>
                      community, collaboration between OSGeo and
              LocationTech would
              <br>
                      be good
              <br>
                      for the community, and I hope as a whole we can
              move towards
              <br>
                      that better
              <br>
                      future.
              <br>
              <br>
                      I hear your concerns for the price of the FOSS4G
              NA tickets,
              <br>
                      though I'll
              <br>
                      point out to people who are following along that
              it's not as
              <br>
                      simple as a
              <br>
                      flat $1000 dollar rate. I encourage you to look at
              the
              <br>
                      registration
              <br>
                      pricing breakdown when it's published for FOSS4G
              NA 2016, be
              <br>
                      sure to
              <br>
                      apply for a non-corporate pass if you will not be
              reimbursed
              <br>
              by a
              <br>
                      company, and to apply for a scholarship if the
              cost is still
              <br>
                      too high.
              <br>
                      Also, if you are giving a talk, registration is
              free, so
              <br>
                      please submit!
              <br>
                      The Call For Proposals is now open
              <br>
(<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://2016.foss4g-na.org/cfp"><https://2016.foss4g-na.org/cfp></a><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://2016.foss4g-na.org/cfp">https://2016.foss4g-na.org/cfp</a>).
              <br>
                      Jeff, your presence was missed at FOSS4G NA 2015
              and I hope
              <br>
                      that you can
              <br>
                      come to Raleigh for FOSS4G NA 2016.
              <br>
              <br>
                      Best,
              <br>
                      Rob
              <br>
              <br>
              <br>
              <br>
              <br>
              <br>
              <br>
              <br>
                      On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 8:40 AM, Jeff McKenna
              <br>
                      <<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jmckenna@gatewaygeomatics.com">jmckenna@gatewaygeomatics.com</a>
              <br>
              <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jmckenna@gatewaygeomatics.com"><mailto:jmckenna@gatewaygeomatics.com></a>
              <br>
                      <<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:jmckenna@gatewaygeomatics.com">mailto:jmckenna@gatewaygeomatics.com</a>
              <br>
              <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jmckenna@gatewaygeomatics.com"><mailto:jmckenna@gatewaygeomatics.com></a>>>
              <br>
              <br>
                      wrote:
              <br>
              <br>
                          On 2015-11-12 7:01 AM, Jody Garnett wrote:
              <br>
              <br>
              <br>
                              I have gotten a number of private emails
              expressing
              <br>
                      concerns about
              <br>
                              LocationTech being involved in several of
              the foss4g
              <br>
                      bids. I
              <br>
                              guess I had
              <br>
                              the opposite concern last year when there
              was the
              <br>
                      joint OSGeo /
              <br>
                              LocationTech foss4gna conference. I was
              kind of
              <br>
                      embarrassed our
              <br>
                              behavior
              <br>
                              as a community - would prefer to see us as
              welcoming
              <br>
                      and supportive
              <br>
                              (especially as we had a first time
              organizer that
              <br>
                      could use our
              <br>
                              support).
              <br>
              <br>
                          Hi Jody,
              <br>
              <br>
                          I am very glad that you brought this up
              publicly. Lately I
              <br>
                      too have
              <br>
                          received very disturbing direct emails,
              containing threats
              <br>
                      of "if
              <br>
                          this happens you watch" "karma you watch
              yourself" "if we
              <br>
                      lose you
              <br>
                          watch out" and direct bullying tactics, for
              speaking my
              <br>
                      mind on this
              <br>
                          issue.  The same people sending these threats
              will not
              <br>
              speak
              <br>
                          publicly on this, so I have asked them to stop
              sending me
              <br>
                      these
              <br>
                          messages, but the messages continue, so I have
              stopped
              <br>
                      answering
              <br>
                          them.  These are "power-play" emails sent
              directly to me,
              <br>
                      but I will
              <br>
                          tell them here publicly, bullying me will not
              stop me from
              <br>
                      speaking
              <br>
                          openly about OSGeo's one event all year, the
              global
              <br>
                      FOSS4G. (for
              <br>
                          those not following the 2017 conference
              discussions, you
              <br>
                      would have
              <br>
                          to read a long thread to get caught up
              <br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://osgeo-org.1560.x6.nabble.com/Call-to-discuss-FOSS4G-2017-proposals-prior-to-voting-td5234235.html">http://osgeo-org.1560.x6.nabble.com/Call-to-discuss-FOSS4G-2017-proposals-prior-to-voting-td5234235.html</a>).
              <br>
              <br>
                          As someone just wrote last night on another
              list, likely
              <br>
                      there would
              <br>
                          be no one else that has attended more FOSS4G
              events,
              <br>
              regional,
              <br>
                          global, anything, than myself. I make a point
              of going to
              <br>
                      a FOSS4G
              <br>
                          event, to help grow the local community, no
              matter what
              <br>
                      size of the
              <br>
                          event or where it is.  Lately in my FOSS4G
              travels I have
              <br>
                      noticed a
              <br>
                          return to our FOSS4G roots, where the popular
              events are
              <br>
                      very low
              <br>
                          cost, aimed at developers, users, students,
              researchers,
              <br>
                      and the
              <br>
                          smaller companies trying to make a living (a
              great recent
              <br>
                      example is
              <br>
                          the FOSS4G-Como event this past July). 
              Getting back to
              <br>
                      the topic of
              <br>
                          your message: I too have been embarrassed by
              recent
              <br>
                          FOSS4G-NorthAmerica events; I was shocked to
              see the
              <br>
              1,000 USD
              <br>
                          registration fee there.
              <br>
              <br>
                          But I was not too upset, because no one is
              traveling the
              <br>
              small
              <br>
                          FOSS4Gs like me to see the difference, and I
              didn't see
              <br>
                      complaints
              <br>
                          voiced from the local NorthAmerican community.
              LocationTech
              <br>
                          involved in FOSS4G-NA is a good thing, to
              promote business
              <br>
                      and give
              <br>
                          those businesses a stage; the core goal of
              LocationTech.
              <br>
              <br>
                          However now we are in the process for deciding
              the global
              <br>
                      FOSS4G
              <br>
                          event for 2017, OSGeo's flagship event,
              attended by the
              <br>
                          international community, and we must be very
              careful.
              <br>
                      Working with
              <br>
                          foundations is good (hence all of OSGeo's
              great MoUs), and
              <br>
                      I'll use
              <br>
                          the upcoming example that the 2016 team is
              considering,
              <br>
              giving
              <br>
                          LocationTech a 90 minute slot in the program
              for their
              <br>
                      projects (and
              <br>
                          the same for OSGeo, UN, likely OGC, and other
              <br>
                      organizations).  This
              <br>
                          is a wonderful way for OSGeo's FOSS4G event to
              involve
              <br>
              other
              <br>
                          organizations.  I hope that LocationTech will
              also give
              <br>
                      OSGeo a 90
              <br>
                          minute slot in their big conference someday as
              well; this
              <br>
                      would be
              <br>
                          exactly what I see as best-case scenario.
              <br>
              <br>
                          On the other hand, not signing an MoU, and
              then just
              <br>
                      contacting all
              <br>
                          of our 2017 bidders, is quite a different
              method to get
              <br>
              to the
              <br>
                          table. Instead of a long-standing MoU
              agreement that would
              <br>
                      foster
              <br>
                          the relationship throughout the years, as we
              have with
              <br>
              so many
              <br>
                          organizations, we are faced with a decision
              now that
              <br>
                      involves both
              <br>
                          foundations and 1,000,000 USD (the annual
              FOSS4G event
              <br>
                      generates a
              <br>
                          lot of revenue, making this very attractive to
              professional
              <br>
                          conference companies all over the world, I was
              phoned
              <br>
                      yesterday by
              <br>
                          one from Europe, for example).  The money is
              there, huge
              <br>
                      money, and
              <br>
                          huge exposure for these companies.  And their
              jobs are on
              <br>
                      the line,
              <br>
                          in their minds.  Hence this situation we are
              forced to
              <br>
                      deal with
              <br>
                          now, and these nasty private messages being
              sent to me.
              <br>
              <br>
                          Let's try to remain positive though, as we
              have 3 great
              <br>
                      bids for
              <br>
                          FOSS4G 2017, and a solid team working hard
              already to make
              <br>
                          FOSS4G-2016 in Bonn another amazing event. 
              OSGeo has
              <br>
                      never been so
              <br>
                          active and vibrant as so many initiatives and
              location
              <br>
                      chapters grow
              <br>
                          all around the world.
              <br>
              <br>
                          Thanks for listening, and thank you Jody for
              bringing this
              <br>
                      topic to
              <br>
                          the public lists.
              <br>
              <br>
                          -jeff
              <br>
              <br>
              <br>
                          --
              <br>
                          Jeff McKenna
              <br>
                          President, OSGeo
              <br>
              <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Jeff_McKenna">http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Jeff_McKenna</a>
              <br>
              <br>
              <br>
              <br>
            </blockquote>
          </blockquote>
        </blockquote>
      </blockquote>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </body>
</html>