<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>Peter,</div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><br></div><div id="AppleMailSignature">Again, I am still awaiting an answer that addresses the concerns raised in/by the community.....</div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><br>Vriendelijke groet,<div>Marc Vloemans</div><div><br></div></div><div><br>Op 15 mei 2016 om 10:59 heeft Peter Baumann <<a href="mailto:p.baumann@jacobs-university.de">p.baumann@jacobs-university.de</a>> het volgende geschreven:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
<meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
Marc,<br>
<br>
it puzzles me that all over the (derogative, right?) word
"dictatorship" is eagerly used while you now frown on "activist". <br>
If we are minding language now we should _all_ be careful.<br>
<br>
-Peter<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 05/15/2016 03:22 AM, Marc Vloemans
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:AFBC8AB5-21FD-4BDC-9D6C-5A3A5663CC82@gmail.com" type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<div>Peter,</div>
<div id="AppleMailSignature"><br>
</div>
<div id="AppleMailSignature">With regard to Rob's comments: I
conclude that the various commentators have repeatedly pointed
out that your line of reasoning is either based on a
non-representative and even faulty sample of
experiences/examples (eg Jeroen and Rob) or on the software's
quality and popularity in certain circles (eg Rob) without
clarifying that particular correlation to its project
management.</div>
<div id="AppleMailSignature"><br>
</div>
<div id="AppleMailSignature">In scientific terms that means your
thesis/argument does not hold up. By the way, citing sources on
quality still does not tell anything about above correlation, so
spare yourself the effort. And comparing Rasdaman to other
OSGeoprojects still makes it an odd-one-out, which no
side-stepping the concerns raised can hide.</div>
<div id="AppleMailSignature"><br>
</div>
<div id="AppleMailSignature">Effectively, we seem to be running in
circles. But ..... we are not: all commentators have been quite
inviting, but you still cannot convince them with true and
relevant reasons. You have even resorted to calling at least me
and (hopefully not too many) others along the way 'activists'.
Wording that fits lesser democratic countries, organisations and
political systems. If that gives an insight into the way you
look at and treat stakeholders/community members with a
different view from yours, then I fear you have shown our
community your true 'colors'/face/intention....</div>
<div id="AppleMailSignature"><br>
</div>
<div id="AppleMailSignature">That is not running in circles but
straight into the abyss, somewhere in-between OSGeo and
Eclipse/LocationTech and other natural allies, in an irrational
and suicidal attempt ....... to achieve what exactly ????</div>
<div id="AppleMailSignature"><br>
Vriendelijke groet,
<div>Marc Vloemans</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
Op 14 mei 2016 om 15:00 heeft Rob Emanuele <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:rdemanuele@gmail.com"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:rdemanuele@gmail.com">rdemanuele@gmail.com</a>>
het volgende geschreven:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<p dir="ltr">Hi Peter,</p>
<p dir="ltr">This is the second time I've heard you defend
your position by simply saying the greatness of the project
justifies whatever model you'd like for project governance,
and mention some independent study that claims your software
is "way faster" and "wins all benchmarks". These are bold,
general and unqualified claims that I would greatly like to
understand in a more detailed way. Please site your sources.</p>
<p dir="ltr">Best,<br>
Rob</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On May 14, 2016 5:43 AM, "Peter
Baumann" <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:p.baumann@jacobs-university.de">p.baumann@jacobs-university.de</a>>
wrote:<br type="attribution">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> OpenHub knows 66
code contributors, and they do not even know (and list)
all over time. Hence, cannot see anyone felt
discouraged. Typical rasdaman contributors are
interested in design by innovation and not design by
committee, and that community spirit has made rasdaman a
leading tool that wins all benchmarks over GeoServer,
SPARK, etc.<br>
-Peter<br>
<br>
PS: suggesting a fork just because OSGeo follows a
narrow principle that does not accommodate rasdaman
makes me frown about the ideals behind :)<br>
<br>
<br>
<div>On 05/12/2016 02:57 PM, Ian Turton wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">I've been trying to stay out of the
arguments about governance models because I prefer
to write code than worry about licences or
governance. But it may help if I share a some
anecdotes (which is almost data) about a couple of
FOSS projects that came out of academia when I was
in charge. One of these you may well have heard of
GeoTools, which forms the base library of GeoServer,
UDig, GeoMesa and others, the other you may not know
GeoVista Studio.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Both these libraries started out as academic
projects that solved a research problem, both were
open sourced as a result of the university
claiming all the intellectual property of it's
staff for ever (so why not give it away?) in both
cases I (and James Macgil) were benevolent
dictators when the projects launched, it was a
simple governance model that left us able to get
on with coding and researching and meant that
things went the way we wanted. GeoTools started to
get some users and people started asking for bug
fixes and new features etc while James & I had
actual jobs to do and wanted to spend time with
our families and go on holiday etc. So we got some
more people involved such as TOPP and Refractions
and we sort of lucked into a PSC and GeoTools went
from strength to strength and now has a PSC that
spans the globe (which makes meeting times hard to
find but is otherwise awesome). In fact for a
while GeoTools and GeoServer managed (or thrived)
with no input from me or James at all. However
GeoVISTA studio, only went open source grudgingly
(the PI's didn't want to give up control really)
and never really gained more than a few users
because we didn't allow other people to influence
the direction of development (after all the
university/PI was paying for the development) and
thus there were only ever two or three developers.
As BD I had no real interest in attracting new
users (previous experience had taught me that's
hard work). Once James and then I moved on to
other jobs development stopped (though <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://sourceforge.net/projects/geovistastudio/files/" target="_blank">apparently someone downloaded a
copy last week)</a>.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions but
my feeling is that to make the move from an
academic to successful FOSS project you need to
move from dictatorship to committee run projects.
If nothing else it allows you some down time from
running the project while never needing to give up
having a say in the running.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Ian</div>
<div><br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>PS Some recent emails have tried to suggest
that governance doesn't matter if you have
forkability but I think that is a flawed view -
but if it is true maybe we could just fork
RASDAMAN and be done with the discussion? :-)</div>
-- <br>
<div>Ian Turton<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
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<br>
<pre cols="80">--
Dr. Peter Baumann
- Professor of Computer Science, Jacobs University Bremen
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.faculty.jacobs-university.de/pbaumann" target="_blank">www.faculty.jacobs-university.de/pbaumann</a>
mail: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:p.baumann@jacobs-university.de" target="_blank">p.baumann@jacobs-university.de</a>
tel: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B49-421-200-3178" value="+494212003178" target="_blank">+49-421-200-3178</a>, fax: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B49-421-200-493178" value="+49421200493178" target="_blank">+49-421-200-493178</a>
- Executive Director, rasdaman GmbH Bremen (HRB 26793)
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.rasdaman.com" target="_blank">www.rasdaman.com</a>, mail: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:baumann@rasdaman.com" target="_blank">baumann@rasdaman.com</a>
tel: 0800-rasdaman, fax: 0800-rasdafax, mobile: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B49-173-5837882" value="+491735837882" target="_blank">+49-173-5837882</a>
"Si forte in alienas manus oberraverit hec peregrina epistola incertis ventis dimissa, sed Deo commendata, precamur ut ei reddatur cui soli destinata, nec preripiat quisquam non sibi parata." (mail disclaimer, AD 1083)
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<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="80">--
Dr. Peter Baumann
- Professor of Computer Science, Jacobs University Bremen
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.faculty.jacobs-university.de/pbaumann">www.faculty.jacobs-university.de/pbaumann</a>
mail: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:p.baumann@jacobs-university.de">p.baumann@jacobs-university.de</a>
tel: +49-421-200-3178, fax: +49-421-200-493178
- Executive Director, rasdaman GmbH Bremen (HRB 26793)
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.rasdaman.com">www.rasdaman.com</a>, mail: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:baumann@rasdaman.com">baumann@rasdaman.com</a>
tel: 0800-rasdaman, fax: 0800-rasdafax, mobile: +49-173-5837882
"Si forte in alienas manus oberraverit hec peregrina epistola incertis ventis dimissa, sed Deo commendata, precamur ut ei reddatur cui soli destinata, nec preripiat quisquam non sibi parata." (mail disclaimer, AD 1083)
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