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Hm, first of all: this is opening a different thread, talking about
functionality of rasdaman community. Next, it is based on
assumptions - without details (because off topic): conclusions are
wrong.<br>
<br>
But to respond to the core message emphasized in the first
paragraph: I respectfully disagree. In particular, such a position
does not benefit the open source community very much as I am trying
to explain below. <br>
<br>
TL;DR:<br>
<br>
You have a strong expertise in Geoinformatics, I know something
about Computer Science. This is where we can talk as professors and
scientists. Your statement is about economics, industry etc. Having
an opinion there (and articulate it) is fair, but in these fields
our opinion weighs not more than anyone else's in the street. We
should not attempt to attain importance through inapplicable roles.<br>
<br>
Let us look at a professor. They have a conveniently high salary
which is paid by society, that is: tax payers. Nobody can influence
what a professor does and how much return s/he generates for
society.<br>
<br>
A single open source developer (or a small group, whatever) do not
experience this convenience. They have a dream where they invest,
they try to not make money for getting richer than a professor ;-)
but merely for their economic survival. Some (in particular
scientists) enjoy the money rain coming from publicly funded
projects (again: the tax payer subsidizes), but most in the
community have to struggle hard. They face reluctant customers,
competition by the giants in the market, and many more obstacles.<br>
<br>
From the cosy place of a lifelong position with a secured salary and
decent retirement funds it is easy to say that all software should
be free like free beer (quote from below: "can be reproduced by
other scientists without prohibitive license costs").<br>
<br>
If the open source movement cannibalizes itself it will make it all
so easy for the big players to maintain their dominance, they will
silently applaud. Quoting Jeroen:<br>
> NEVER IGNORE COMPANIES AGAIN IN OSGEO OR FOSS4G! THEY ARE NOT A
THREAT, THEY ARE A NECESSITY.<br>
<br>
That said: It is entirely ok to have the opinion you have. Others,
though, may disagree. I am one of those.<br>
<br>
respectfully,<br>
Peter<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 05/20/2016 09:30 AM, Edzer Pebesma
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:573EBD05.9050205@uni-muenster.de" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">As a scientist, I teach my students that for doing science it is a
requirement to work with open source software, because only then
workflows are fully transparent and can be reproduced by other
scientists without prohibitive license costs. Currently, working
with large amounts of earth observation (EO) or climate model data
typically requires to download these data tile by tile, stitch them
together, and go through all of them. Array databases may simplify
this substantially: after ingesting the tiles, they can directly
work on the whole data as a multi-dimensinal array ("data cube").
Computations on these array are typically embarassingly parallel,
and scale up with the number of cores in a cluster.
Rasdaman is an array data base that comes in two flavours, the open
source community edition (CE) and the commercial enterprise edition
(EE). The differences between the two are clear [1]. When I want to
use rasdaman CE (open source) for scalable image analysis, I get
stuck waiting for one core to finish everything [1]. This is not
going to solve any problems related to computing on large data,
and is not scalable. The bold claim that rasdaman.org opens with
("This worldwide leading array analytics engine distinguishes itself
by its flexibility, performance, and scalability") is not true for
the CE advertised. This has been mentioned in the past on mailing
lists [2,3], but the typical answer from Peter Baumann diverts into
other arguments. Also the benchmark graph (photo from an AGU poster)
[4] that Peter sent this week [5] must refer to the enterprise
edition, since Spark and Hive both scale, but rasdaman CE does not [3].
I assume that on the discussions on this list, ONLY the open
source community edition is considered, compared, and discussed,
as a potential future OSGeo project.
OSGeo supports the needs of the open source geospatial community [6].
Given
* the bold claims and continuing confusion about whether,
and which, rasdaman is scalable,
* the need for OSGeo to give good advice to prospective users
about technologies that do scale EO data analysis,
* the current (unfilled!) needs of scientists for good, open source
software for such analysis, and
* the potential conflict of interest of its creator [7],
I wonder wether OSGeo should recommend rasdaman CE to the open
source geospatial community.
[1] <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://rasdaman.org/wiki/Features">http://rasdaman.org/wiki/Features</a>
[2] <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/incubator/2014-October/002540.html">https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/incubator/2014-October/002540.html</a>
[3] <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rasdaman-users/66XL3tmDDQI">https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rasdaman-users/66XL3tmDDQI</a>
[4]
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/discuss/attachments/20160515/49200cd4/attachment.jpg">https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/discuss/attachments/20160515/49200cd4/attachment.jpg</a>
[5] <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/discuss/2016-May/016099.html">https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/discuss/2016-May/016099.html</a>
[6] <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.osgeo.org/content/faq/foundation_faq.html">http://www.osgeo.org/content/faq/foundation_faq.html</a>
[7] <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/discuss/2016-May/016045.html">https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/discuss/2016-May/016045.html</a>
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<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Discuss@lists.osgeo.org">Discuss@lists.osgeo.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss">http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a></pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="80">--
Dr. Peter Baumann
- Professor of Computer Science, Jacobs University Bremen
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.faculty.jacobs-university.de/pbaumann">www.faculty.jacobs-university.de/pbaumann</a>
mail: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:p.baumann@jacobs-university.de">p.baumann@jacobs-university.de</a>
tel: +49-421-200-3178, fax: +49-421-200-493178
- Executive Director, rasdaman GmbH Bremen (HRB 26793)
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.rasdaman.com">www.rasdaman.com</a>, mail: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:baumann@rasdaman.com">baumann@rasdaman.com</a>
tel: 0800-rasdaman, fax: 0800-rasdafax, mobile: +49-173-5837882
"Si forte in alienas manus oberraverit hec peregrina epistola incertis ventis dimissa, sed Deo commendata, precamur ut ei reddatur cui soli destinata, nec preripiat quisquam non sibi parata." (mail disclaimer, AD 1083)
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