<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<p><changing email title to a solution focus></p>
<p>Randal,</p>
<p>I love your OSGeo educational vision. Its practical, it has a
clear vision, it sounds achievable, it is something which could
start small and then scale, and I think it has the potential to
inspire people to contribute to it. If it attracts a few motivated
and driven contributors, I believe it has all the hallmarks of a
successful Open Source project [1]. I want in!</p>
<p>I can also help out with setting up processes and reviewing
documentation.</p>
<p>I think the first step to work out is our vision, and then
clearly define our first few releases, ensuring they are
achievable. Randal, you've made a great start on that. Maybe
something like:<br>
</p>
<p>* Simple for teachers to use.</p>
<p>* Focus on quality over quantity<br>
</p>
<p>* Has clear teaching goals.</p>
<p>* Makes use of cool, inspiring use cases that kids will connect
with and find relevant.</p>
<p>* Maybe a really engaging use case would be to allow kids to add
the school's basketball hoop to Open Street Map, and then know
that their contribution will be around forever</p>
<p>* Re content, are there national or international learning guides
we can trace back to? If proprietary vendors are linking back to
these, and we do the same, it will provide opportunities for
teachers to mix-and-match classes, similar to switching
applications which all access datasets using the same WMS
standard.</p>
<p>One of the key requirements we are going to need is user
feedback. Having teachers report back on the success of their
classes, describing what they'd like to achieve so that we can
help implement it for them. Randal, as you appear to have already
built that connection, I suggest you'd be the best person to start
defining what the first classes should look like?</p>
<p>What should be our first target audience? What age group? Who is
prepared to drive that?</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>[1]
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://cameronshorter.blogspot.com.au/2011/06/memoirs-of-cat-herder-coordinating.html">http://cameronshorter.blogspot.com.au/2011/06/memoirs-of-cat-herder-coordinating.html</a><br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 29/10/2016 1:54 AM, Randal Hale
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:6bcf33f1-b066-0eda-f7b1-211d16c1149e@northrivergeographic.com"
type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
<p>The way I look at it - and this is from watching Teachers at
the school: Imagine getting a disk full of software. Have a
colleague come over and repeatedly poke you in the head while
you try to figure out what is on the disk and where the
instructions are. In a few more minutes have someone come over
and start singing while you are getting poked in the head. Maybe
someone pours water in your shoe in another 2 minutes. <br>
</p>
<p>It needs to be that simple. That's what the ESRI folk are doing
"Lessons, 'free', and here is the Documentation". <br>
</p>
<p>Simple: software, x directories with x lessons.</p>
<p>A giant Red button with "Don't Panic" in nice friendly letters.
<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/28/2016 10:39 AM, Angelos
Tzotsos wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:eb476ac7-bf4e-cfb4-7a13-d18ec98e9743@gmail.com"
type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">So according to Randal, to reach
out to schools we need a scaled-down and lighter OSGeo-Live
build (probably without the server side applications), with
different documentation included. Maybe based on Edubuntu?<br>
<br>
I volunteer to make a custom OSGeo-Live iso for kids, but we
will need lots of feedback and volunteers to shape up a new
documentation.<br>
<br>
Last year I had the chance to teach several hours of
OpenStreetMap to school kids in a municipality initiative and
I can totally agree that things are different with kids. They
did not seem to have much difficulty with the OSGeo-Live UI,
but we ended up playing with iD and less with desktop
applications, like josm. <br>
<br>
just my 2c<br>
<br>
Angelos<br>
<br>
<br>
On 10/28/2016 04:55 PM, Randal Hale wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:91611182-5942-0f8b-278e-5d554290eb15@northrivergeographic.com"
type="cite">If I can just chime in (I told my cat I wasn't). <br>
<br>
The kicker in this is ESRI is deeply entrenched everywhere.
They've entire groups of people just focused on "giving to
schools". I was at the helm of rolling out a full ESRI rollout
to a school in 2012. We had a 50 seat lab setup. I ended up
moving them over to FOSS4G 2 years ago - and I need to go back
and update their setup (they don't know how). The school is
Title 1 (which means the school is very poor). The computers
are better than what they normally get - BUT - they will be
using them longer than what they need to. They will be unable
to run the next version of ESRI Software. The computers can
still run FOSS4G software. <br>
<br>
The teachers here in the US (and I have no doubt this is the
case everywhere) are stretched thin. That's what makes ESRI so
nice. They show up and go "here is a curriculum (of sorts) and
here is 'free' software". It's a short term win. They have
people targeted to do just that. <br>
<br>
So what would Randy do (and I've thought about this more than
I care to mention) to introduce FOSS4G into the schools: <br>
<br>
A bootable disk with FOSS4G software (I am partial to QGIS -
other things exist) and not everything like the OSGEO Disk. A
few select pieces of software with a purpose: <br>
<br>
* 10 lessons of 1 hour apiece to work through that are
student <br>
oriented (maybe pick an age range - 12-16) <br>
o Start globally and work down to locally. Maybe we have
different <br>
local datasets. <br>
* An explanation for the teachers. They don't understand like
we do - <br>
they need us there for hand holding and encouragement. They
can <br>
manage kids - We need to help manage the lessons. I'm not a
teacher. <br>
I can teach adults - but not kids - it's a whole different
game. <br>
* A spot where teachers can get the lessons (NOT GITHUB) and
the disk <br>
(maybe we combine all things into a bootable USB stick). <br>
* Help - a place where they can get help (NOT GITHUB). My
town has 30+ <br>
schools. If more than 1 does this I can't be everywhere.
ESRI put <br>
out a call for Geomentors. We put out a call. <br>
* We have COMMUNITY - I don't believe ESRI currently does.
They have <br>
an advertising budget. 20 years ago they had community. We
have <br>
momentum now. Community is greater than an Advertising
budget. <br>
* Advertise it. Ask for help from the teachers. <br>
* Update it. <br>
<br>
I know I'm asking for a lot - it's time intensive - but I
think it's 100% doable. I go to speak at 2 colleges on GIS Day
on nothing but FOSS4G. <br>
<br>
We've got all the pieces to make this work except time. I'll
carve out some time if this gets going. <br>
<br>
I wished the cat had stopped me. Now I'm in it. <br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 29/10/2016 12:56 AM, SERGIO
ACOSTAYLARA wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:1477663007751.31324@mtop.gub.uy" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Thank you Jeff for your great answer to my ¿call? It's a pity the Geo4all Teacher Training and School Education Thematic Group (<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/GeoForAll_TeacherTraining_SchoolEducation">http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/GeoForAll_TeacherTraining_SchoolEducation</a>) isn't as active as I think it should be as I find it's the group that can best answer to this "huge opportunity" as you call it. Sure Bridget is doing great work and we need to publicise it much more. We here are also doing hard work in order to disseminate the use of FOSS4G in schools (post -in Spanish- about last news: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://gvsigbatovi.wordpress.com/2016/10/25/jornada-taller-en-ceibal-y-creacion-de-equipo-de-seguimiento-gvsig-batovi/">https://gvsigbatovi.wordpress.com/2016/10/25/jornada-taller-en-ceibal-y-creacion-de-equipo-de-seguimiento-gvsig-batovi/</a>) but we surely need to work harder. It is not an easy task but it deserves doing the effort. It`s scaring to know that "youth -only- learn what ESRI means". We all know this provision of free ArcGIS online organization accounts to all K-12 schools in the US (note this: ALL K-12 SCHOOLS) is not at all philanthropic. Cameron, I agree with your idea and I can help with it.
Regards,
Sergio Acosta y Lara
Departamento de Geomática
Dirección Nacional de Topografía
Ministerio de Transporte y Obras Públicas
URUGUAY
(598)29157933 ints. 20329/20330
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://geoportal.mtop.gub.uy/">http://geoportal.mtop.gub.uy/</a>
________________________________________
De: Discuss <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:discuss-bounces@lists.osgeo.org"><discuss-bounces@lists.osgeo.org></a> en nombre de Jeff McKenna <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jmckenna@gatewaygeomatics.com"><jmckenna@gatewaygeomatics.com></a>
Enviado: jueves, 27 de octubre de 2016 21:34
Para: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:discuss@lists.osgeo.org">discuss@lists.osgeo.org</a>
Asunto: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Sharing sad news from the web...
Maybe what we are missing are the existing OSGeo-led education labs
inside highschools - I was cooking now and thought of the great work
being done by Bridget Fleming with the South African highschool
geography teachers. How can we publish and share this great work, and
spread that out to other highschools around the world - can OSGeo's
Geo4All committee make that its focus now?
Anyway, 'food' for thought! <span class="moz-smiley-s1" title=":)"></span>
Thank you again Sergio for bringing this to everyone's attention.
Night all,
-jeff
On 2016-10-27 6:04 PM, Jeff McKenna wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite" style="color: #000000;">
<pre wrap=""><span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>Hi Sergio,
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">></span>
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>Thank you for sharing this news.
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">></span>
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>I'd like to take this opportunity to take a moment for us, our
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>foundation, to look in the mirror. Like this article points out
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>strongly (yet indirectly), we still have much work to do to reach the
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>youth of today and tomorrow. And I don't mean the United States or any
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>one country, as I see this in my own backyard in Canada and everywhere I
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>travel for OSGeo: a focus on universities and industry (where the money
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>and funding is), and a pure lack of focus on those fresh energetic and
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>unbiased minds of youth in highschool and middleschool. I see it each
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>year in the Geo4All day (or PostGIS day, or GISDay, whatever we all call
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>it) where events are held for university students and industry
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>professionals, all over the world - the problem is those attendees of
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>the events already know the thrill of the Open community, of geospatial,
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>of our passion. We miss the focus on today's youth.
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">></span>
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>I always tried to speak to the back row of the theatre, to sing to those
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>at the very back too shy to come forward yet so eager to be part of the
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>spotlight, part of the community, and I put much focus on those rarely
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>heard of communities and countries around the world, giving them the
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>spotlight and the microphone to shine and grow and be seen and heard on
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>the world stage - well, the time is now for us to give that spotlight to
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>the youth as well.
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">></span>
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>Now that Geo4All is the official education committee for the OSGeo
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>foundation, we can use that committee to tackle this huge hole, or
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>rather this huge opportunity. Maybe the Geo4All committee feels that
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>they are indeed handling this already, in the highschools etc, and this
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>message can help Geo4All promote and recruit more champions for their
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>existing work. Great! I'd like to hear of our equivalent for this
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>ConnectED initiative by Esri, focusing on the youth (and not directly on
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>universities), of how youth learn what "OSGeo" is, what "OSGeo" means -
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>as this article strongly points out, youth learn what "Esri" means,
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>indeed Esri continues to do great work and focus on that huge future
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>market of youth. But what are we doing as the OSGeo foundation? Talking
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>here about that can help build this momentum.
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">></span>
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>Just how many highschools and middle schools are involved in our Geo4All
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>initiative by OSGeo's education committee? Can someone come up with a
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>total from the list of current labs?
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span><a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Edu_current_initiatives">https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Edu_current_initiatives</a> What does that
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>total tell us? How can we improve on that total?
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">></span>
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>I actually was on the stage and handed an award to about 4 highschool
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>students in person at the FOSS4G-Europe event in Como last year, on
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>behalf of OSGeo; I saw their passion and spoke with them right after the
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>session, they were thrilled to be included in this community.
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>This was an award led by the Geo4All committee, so, this is an example
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>of their great work with the youth of today - but I bet few knew of that
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>award, well we can hopefully change that here through Sergio's wakeup
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>message.
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">></span>
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>I hope this message brings all those passionate leaders out there in
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>OSGeo's Geo4All committee here, with their great examples of their work,
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>and we can use this news shared by Sergio to help change this myth that
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>OSGeo isn't a part of the youth activities today, get more press on the
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>great work by the Geo4All committee of OSGeo (as mentioned by Cameron),
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>and gather more champions to keep spreading our passion to the youth of
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>tomorrow - as I've said many times, we're currently hiring champions <span class="moz-smiley-s1" title=":)"></span>
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">></span>
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>-jeff</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote
cite="mid:6bcf33f1-b066-0eda-f7b1-211d16c1149e@northrivergeographic.com"
type="cite">
<blockquote
cite="mid:eb476ac7-bf4e-cfb4-7a13-d18ec98e9743@gmail.com"
type="cite">
<blockquote
cite="mid:91611182-5942-0f8b-278e-5d554290eb15@northrivergeographic.com"
type="cite"> On 10/28/2016 09:16 AM, Jeff McKenna wrote: <br>
<blockquote type="cite">As if someone is reading this ha, a
tweet just came across my desk: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://twitter.com/GIS4Teachers/status/791981572991746048">https://twitter.com/GIS4Teachers/status/791981572991746048</a>
<br>
<br>
So, we need to also get into that huge K-12 market, plant
the open seed early :) A challenge indeed. <br>
<br>
Think on this over the weekend, <br>
<br>
-jeff <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 2016-10-27 12:36 PM, SERGIO ACOSTAYLARA wrote: <br>
<blockquote type="cite">Sadly, only ESRI seems to exist for
some in the USA...Imagine the <br>
consequences of <br>
this: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.pobonline.com/articles/100610-gathering-up-geospatial-pros-to-meet-massive-market-growth">http://www.pobonline.com/articles/100610-gathering-up-geospatial-pros-to-meet-massive-market-growth</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Sergio Acosta y Lara <br>
Departamento de Geomática <br>
Dirección Nacional de Topografía <br>
Ministerio de Transporte y Obras Públicas <br>
URUGUAY <br>
(598)29157933 ints. 20329/20330 <br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://geoportal.mtop.gub.uy/">http://geoportal.mtop.gub.uy/</a>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
_______________________________________________ <br>
Discuss mailing list <br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:Discuss@lists.osgeo.org">Discuss@lists.osgeo.org</a>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss">http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Discuss@lists.osgeo.org">Discuss@lists.osgeo.org</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss">http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a></pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p><br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Angelos Tzotsos, PhD
OSGeo Charter Member
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://users.ntua.gr/tzotsos">http://users.ntua.gr/tzotsos</a></pre>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Discuss@lists.osgeo.org">Discuss@lists.osgeo.org</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss">http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a></pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
-----------------
Randal Hale
North River Geographic Systems, Inc
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.northrivergeographic.com">http://www.northrivergeographic.com</a>
423.653.3611 <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:rjhale@northrivergeographic.com">rjhale@northrivergeographic.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="twitter:rjhale">twitter:rjhale</a></pre>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Discuss@lists.osgeo.org">Discuss@lists.osgeo.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss">http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a></pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Cameron Shorter
M +61 419 142 254</pre>
</body>
</html>