<div dir="ltr"><div>Marc there is also the opportunity for us to grow as an organization.</div><div><br></div><div>Many of the points brought up in this discussion, and the earlier one on listing open source projects, were voiced by myself back in March as I gradually came to terms with this scope of work. I think it was Jeffrey who first asked me to consider that we can best serve our open source projects by taking on this outreach (rather than directly focusing on recruiting more funding and contributors). I am willing to give it a go but it is a leap of faith that we are taking the correct approach...</div><div><br></div><div>The beta website, and these discussions, are far more effective than the blog posts at communicating how OSGeo can be useful.<br clear="all"></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div class="m_5449916820166966340gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div>--</div><div>Jody Garnett</div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On 20 September 2017 at 20:18, Marc Vloemans <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:marcvloemans1@gmail.com" target="_blank">marcvloemans1@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div>Hi all,</div><div id="m_5449916820166966340m_-8847906287866241631AppleMailSignature"><br></div><div id="m_5449916820166966340m_-8847906287866241631AppleMailSignature">An observation from my end:</div><div id="m_5449916820166966340m_-8847906287866241631AppleMailSignature"><br></div><div id="m_5449916820166966340m_-8847906287866241631AppleMailSignature">this apparently has become an argument to frame a person - who has done more for our community than I can list - as if he is insulting and offending that same community. Unsuccessfully, I am glad. From the almost deadly silence I deduct no collective cry out "I am shocked, shocked, shocked....".</div><div id="m_5449916820166966340m_-8847906287866241631AppleMailSignature"><br></div><div id="m_5449916820166966340m_-8847906287866241631AppleMailSignature">What a clever and Machiavellian turn this discussion has taken....truly a textbook example for master classes in discussion techniques. </div><div id="m_5449916820166966340m_-8847906287866241631AppleMailSignature"><br></div><div id="m_5449916820166966340m_-8847906287866241631AppleMailSignature">Let me phrase it pleasantly: there is no moral high ground on this topic only organisational self-destruction.</div><div id="m_5449916820166966340m_-8847906287866241631AppleMailSignature"><br></div><div id="m_5449916820166966340m_-8847906287866241631AppleMailSignature"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">In my role as marketing committee chair, charter member and human(oid) I feel increasingly sad to witness again and again and again, a process where volunteers (working for nearly a year on our organisation's well received new brand and busy wrapping up the last website work) are publicly sucked into .......</span></div><div id="m_5449916820166966340m_-8847906287866241631AppleMailSignature"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">Well, something which I hardly recognise as the OSGeo that I entered more than a decade ago.</span></div><div id="m_5449916820166966340m_-8847906287866241631AppleMailSignature"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><br></span></div><div id="m_5449916820166966340m_-8847906287866241631AppleMailSignature">For once I like to be proven wrong....<br><br>Kind regards,<br><div>Marc Vloemans</div><div><br></div></div><div><div class="m_5449916820166966340h5"><div><br>Op 20 sep. 2017 om 19:29 heeft Maria Antonia Brovelli <<a href="mailto:maria.brovelli@polimi.it" target="_blank">maria.brovelli@polimi.it</a>> het volgende geschreven:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
<div>Jody, I see very difficult the existence of a vast majority of GIS industry that has honestly not heard about open source yet. Anyway I refuse the idea of "similar proprietary software" because our projects are much more than pieces of code. Behind
our software there are communities and limiting our projects to pieces of code is offensive and insulting for the volunteers behind them. We are more and diverse. This is the reason why there are not "similar proprietary software". </div>
<div>Thanks for removing the links.</div>
<div>Best</div>
<div>Maria</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div id="m_5449916820166966340m_-8847906287866241631composer_signature">
<div style="font-size:88%;color:#364f67" dir="auto">Inviato dal mio dispositivo Samsung</div>
</div>
<br>
<br>
-------- Messaggio originale --------<br>
Da: Jody Garnett <<a href="mailto:jody.garnett@gmail.com" target="_blank">jody.garnett@gmail.com</a>> <br>
Data: 20/09/17 18:53 (GMT+01:00) <br>
A: Maria Antonia Brovelli <<a href="mailto:maria.brovelli@polimi.it" target="_blank">maria.brovelli@polimi.it</a>> <br>
Cc: Margherita Di Leo <<a href="mailto:diregola@gmail.com" target="_blank">diregola@gmail.com</a>>, Helmut Kudrnovsky <<a href="mailto:hellik@web.de" target="_blank">hellik@web.de</a>>, OSGeo Discussions <<a href="mailto:discuss@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">discuss@lists.osgeo.org</a>>, OSGeo-Marketing <<a href="mailto:marketing@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">marketing@lists.osgeo.org</a>>
<br>
Oggetto: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Marketing] Proprietary GIS on our OSGeo website <br>
<br>
<div dir="ltr">Thanks Maria,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I reject the idea that we are advertising proprietary software, so each time it is phrased that way of course everyone well say "no".</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I want to help our software reach visitors that feel locked into proprietary software, please recognize this goal and how "migrate from" can help. </div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
<div>
<div class="m_5449916820166966340m_-8847906287866241631gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>--</div>
<div>Jody Garnett</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 20 September 2017 at 09:49, Maria Antonia Brovelli <span dir="ltr">
<<a href="mailto:maria.brovelli@polimi.it" target="_blank">maria.brovelli@polimi.it</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div>Dear Jody</div>
<div>Personally I agree with Helmut and I don't see any necessity of putting "similar proprietary software" on our web pages. I don't think proprietary software need to be advertized. We are a Foundation about Open Software and I want to see the open source
projects on the website that we have been paying as OSGeo. </div>
<div>I ask please to remove the "similar proprietary software" and the related links. </div>
<div>Many thanks </div>
<div>Best,</div>
<div>Maria </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
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<div id="m_5449916820166966340m_-8847906287866241631m_832463338656994617composer_signature">
<div style="font-size:88%;color:#364f67" dir="auto">Inviato dal mio dispositivo Samsung</div>
</div>
<br>
<br>
-------- Messaggio originale --------<br>
Da: Jody Garnett <<a href="mailto:jody.garnett@gmail.com" target="_blank">jody.garnett@gmail.com</a>>
<br>
Data: 20/09/17 14:45 (GMT+01:00) <br>
A: Margherita Di Leo <<a href="mailto:diregola@gmail.com" target="_blank">diregola@gmail.com</a>>, Helmut Kudrnovsky <<a href="mailto:hellik@web.de" target="_blank">hellik@web.de</a>>
<br>
Cc: OSGeo Discussions <<a href="mailto:discuss@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">discuss@lists.osgeo.org</a>>, OSGeo-Marketing <<a href="mailto:marketing@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">marketing@lists.osgeo.org</a>>
<br>
Oggetto: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Marketing] Proprietary GIS on our OSGeo website <br>
<span><br>
<div dir="ltr">Thanks for the discussion on the bug report. Please keep in mind that this website is written by us, but it is not intended for us - it is intended for the vast majority of the GIS industry that has honestly not heard about open source yet.
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>These sections are optional, if one of our open source projects has a particular target market in mind filling in this information would really help! Indeed when I go to a normal GIS conference this is the top question - since I have not had a chance to
use the proprietary software it is not one I can easily answer.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>In the above bug report I would like to change the heading from "<span style="color:rgb(80,0,80);font-size:12.800000190734863px">Similar Proprietary Products" to "Migrate From", but perhaps that is too confrontational? I would also like to avoid advertising
p</span><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80);font-size:12.800000190734863px">roprietary software, linking to the associated wikipedia entry if appropriate.</span></div>
</div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80);font-size:12.800000190734863px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80);font-size:12.800000190734863px">I am not interested in </span><font color="#500050"><span style="font-size:12.800000190734863px">reciprocity, I am interested in OSGeo projects taking competition to the GIS industry which
as been missing.</span></font></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 5:09 AM Margherita Di Leo <<a href="mailto:diregola@gmail.com" target="_blank">diregola@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Hi,
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote"></div>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 11:41 AM, Helmut Kudrnovsky <span dir="ltr">
<<a href="mailto:hellik@web.de" target="_blank">hellik@web.de</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
Dear OSGeo community<br>
<br>
I want to bring you a discussion on a github ticket about linking to "similar proprietary products" [1] to your attention.<br>
<br>
My comment there:<br>
<br>
"I support and concur with Venka that the item "Similar Proprietary Products" should be removed. There isn't only one proprietary GIS software out there, there are several others. IMHO such comparisons may be part of e.g. a reviewed scientific paper/elaboration,
where our OSGeo projects - if they want to - may link to. I see no added value for OSGeo to serve such links. As already elsewhere mentioned by me, reciprocity is the key if such items are listed, but I can't see this happen. "<br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>I agree. I don't understand it either. </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
I'm pretty much convinced that more effort to help our OSGeo projects improving on every level (e.g. documentation, reach out, testing, etc) is the key rather than linking to proprietary software. One of such opportunities may be the upcoming Google Code In
(GCI) 2017 e.g. to produce nice screenshots for documentation, produce some fancy videos etc. based on tiny little tasks for students aged 13 to 17. A good invest in the young who will be our OSGeo's future.<br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>Thanks for mentioning that, Helli. May I add that suitable tasks for students may include design of web pages and / or promotional material, see for example
<a href="https://codein.withgoogle.com/archive/2015/organization/4777925899452416/task/5259692246827008/" target="_blank">
https://codein.withgoogle.com/<wbr>archive/2015/organization/4777<wbr>925899452416/task/525969224682<wbr>7008/</a></div>
<div>I take the liberty of cc'ing the marketing committee, because it would be nice to see some members joining the code-in mentors pool. Let us know that you want to join, writing an email to <a href="mailto:gsoc-admin@osgeo.org" target="_blank">gsoc-admin@osgeo.org</a> and
I'll send you the subscription form.</div>
<div>Hoping that I didn't go much off topic respect to the original meaning of this email</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thank you</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
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<div><br>
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-- <br>
<div class="m_5449916820166966340m_-8847906287866241631m_832463338656994617gmail-m_-870484384939460330m_-4774539140540638727gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div><font color="#666666">Margherita Di Leo</font></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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