<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>+1</div><div id="AppleMailSignature">Without businesses no SLA's etc. for professional enduser organisations, who ultimate pay for developers as well as the 'parties'.</div><div id="AppleMailSignature">(Coming nog from a - black - suit ;-)<br><br>Kind regards,<br><div>Marc Vloemans</div><div><br></div></div><div><br>Op 16 okt. 2017 om 19:44 heeft Seven (aka Arnulf) <<a href="mailto:seven@arnulf.us">seven@arnulf.us</a>> het volgende geschreven:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<p>Folks, <br>
</p>
if we want to compete then we have to play the game. Party is great
but the money is not in the party and fun part. The money sits in
large corps and governments. Folks coming from there are not
expected to party or hang out and have fun. They are expected to see
the bleeding edge technology first hand, learn about the reliability
of Open Source and Free Software licensing and learn about the
leading businesses in that domain. Companies who choose to support
FOSS4G with their sponsorship and come to the global big business
FOSS4G industry event. Honor them. Honor those who organize those
events. Consider paying them professional rates instead of burning
them out and then complain that they have left. <br>
<p>(Maybe to the disagreement of some) these kind of events function
by making things shine and excel. This includes a great venue,
great catering, inviting great paid speakers and award great
awards at a great gala dinner. Yawn. How I hate those events! Plus
they are costly! Plus I have to wear my (cat)suit! Yuck! But this
is also why I always have worn a suit when it was required
(especially on Star Trek Voyager). No, I do not consider myself a
suit. But I wear one when it is required. There are aspects of
Free Software and Open Source where a suit is a door opener.
Condemn it, door closes. <br>
</p>
<p>The good thing is, we do not have to stop anything. We can and we
already are doing both. We have great local events and code
sprints and fun and party and all. Plus we have a one time per
year event that is expensive and attracts the money. Where is the
problem? Don't like it? Then don't go. Cannot afford it? Then
promote it so that those who can afford it go (and indirectly pay
your pizza during the fun events). How cool is that? <br>
</p>
<p>Honestly, FOSS4G "global" should stay (or become even more of) an
industry event. What do you think where the (admittedly tiny)
OSGeo budget comes from? It is the surplus generated by well
organized, efficient and shiny (plus fun) FOSS4Gs. This money is
used to support the pizza and coffee for local code sprints. Why
on earth would anybody in his or her right mind jeopardize or even
criticize an event that helps fund everything else we do? <br>
</p>
<p>Cheers,<br>
Seven<br>
</p>
(Founder, Charter Member, ex Director, President Emeritus of OSGeo
and grumpy old ex Borg drone) <br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 16.10.2017 um 18:55 schrieb Jody
Garnett:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:CAOhbgAk53RxhG2hGMr0AwWH1bh8N=oNdcFouQCr0CZyePsLvDg@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">I would like a chance to listen to everyone and
avoid creating spits in our community, some of the most critical
feedback received about foss4g affordability has been by
companies. Our strength in part comes from bridging divides, a
foss4g for business would not be a foss4g.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Ravi can I ask if you would like to have a "hangout" or
"party" event?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>I was surprised to encounter the viewpoint that foss4g it
is considered an OSGeo party. While we have lots to
celebrate, I view foss4g as a time when we can best meet our
outreach goals. I tend to view this as a responsibility -
the local organizing committee has specific brought us in to
knock-the-socks off the local geospatial community and show
them how amazing open source can be!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As a personal goal I am trying to be more relaxed about
viewing OSGeo as a party, our community members are amazing
should be celebrated and celebrating. It is one thing I
really appreciated about the slower pace of this years
foss4g-europe event, think it was the first time I got to
see Andrea Amine slow down enough to talk to.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks again for bringing interesting questions to this
years elections.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
<div>
<div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>--</div>
<div>Jody Garnett</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 15 October 2017 at 23:59, Ravi Kumar
<span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:manarajahmundry2015@gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">manarajahmundry2015@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>Hi List,<br>
</div>
happy to note that 'FOSS4G being
Costly/Unaffordable', is discussed.<br>
</div>
To make it fun, spice is added on the TERM
HANGOUT.. <br>
<br>
</div>
May be the next board will have FOSS4G for
Business, where in 5* comforts that might make
business easy for OSGeo.<br>
</div>
Will also have, 'FOSS4G Developers', where in
young students/Reserchers can have a great
conference.<br>
<br>
</div>
Some fine tuning may make, Say , 1st 2 days 5
Star.. Next two affordable.<br>
</div>
But in a world where, 'COST some times means
Efficiency', may not, 'play ball', with this Idea.<br>
<br>
</div>
Cheers.. and All the best to the Hopefuls<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
<br>
</font></span></div>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">Ravi Kumar<br>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</font></span></div>
<div class="HOEnZb">
<div class="h5">
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 11:19
AM, Jody Garnett <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jody.garnett@gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">jody.garnett@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Okay I checked that the report is
not published yet (sigh). I really appreciated
Jeff's answer, and agree that regional foss4g
events are seeing great success and are much
more affordable.
<div>
<div><br>
<div>To answer your question:</div>
<div><span>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.800000190734863px"><i>'Do
you agree that FOSS4G is turning
out to be a hangout for those who
can afford it'</i>.. </span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.800000190734863px"><br>
</span></div>
</span>
<div><span style="font-size:12.800000190734863px">I
have never agreed that FOSS4G is a
hangout - I continue to view it as our
most effective outreach event.</span></div>
<span>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><i><span style="font-size:12.800000190734863px">costs
(of participation) are </span><span style="font-size:12.800000190734863px">so high that many might not
afford.. </span></i><br>
</div>
<div><i><span style="font-size:12.800000190734863px"><br>
</span></i></div>
</span>
<div><span style="font-size:12.800000190734863px">I
very much agree with this, indeed I
was only able to attend the Lausanne
event by the kindness of people
letting me sleep on their hotel floor.
I have tried to return the favour each
time the event took place in my home
city.</span></div>
<div><i><span style="font-size:12.800000190734863px"><br>
</span></i></div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.800000190734863px"><i>If
selected to the board HOW do you
wish to correct this...</i></span><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This is a tricky one, in part because
I do not have to imagine - here is my
own recommendation from the <a href="mailto:board@osgeo.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">board@osgeo.org</a>
email list thread: <a href="https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/board/2017-August/010526.html" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">f2f
meeting follow up</a>:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>On 21 August 2017 at 11:23, Jody
Garnett <jody.garnett at <a href="http://gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px
40px;border:none;padding:0px">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div><i>I saw this thread get into
the details of the RFP - for
that we have</i></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div><i>volunteers on the conference
committee. My goal as a board member
is to</i></div>
</div>
<div>
<div><i>work on strategy, as the
conference committee knows best about
the RFP</i></div>
</div>
<div>
<div><i>wording and process.</i></div>
</div>
<div>
<div><i><br>
</i></div>
</div>
<div>
<div><i>*Q: *Based on the affordability
report, and resulting discussion, did
we as </i><i>the board have any
direction to ask the conference
committee to steer in?</i></div>
</div>
<div>
<div><i><br>
</i></div>
</div>
<div>
<div><i>My own feedback:</i></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px
40px;border:none;padding:0px">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div><i>1) I was pleasantly
surprised that the ticket cost
of foss4g has not </i><i>changed
significantly over the course of
the events (indeed our most </i><i>expensive
event was Sydney and our
cheapest Korea).</i></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><i><br>
</i></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><i>I do not see any guidance to
provide here (this was surprising to
me).</i></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><i><br>
</i></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><i>2) Attendance continues to
increase limiting appropriate venues</i></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><i><br>
</i></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><i>I do not see any guidence to
provide here, our community and
event is </i><i>growing. I think
once we get around 3000 people we
may be forced to settle </i><i>down
to consider a fixed location, but at
1000-2000 we can still move it </i><i>around.</i></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><i><br>
</i></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><i>3) regional events are killing
it</i></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><i><br>
</i></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><i>I do not see any guidence to
provide here, our community and
events is </i><i>growing. </i><i>The
hope is this takes some of the
strain from the global event,
allowing </i><i>it to focus on
outreach and advocacy more.</i></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><i><br>
</i></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><i>4) hard for students to attend
(also journal, etc...)</i></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><i><br>
</i></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><i>There was a strong hope that
travel grant program could help out
a lot </i><i>here, that would make
me sad as this was intended to work
towards </i><i>diversity.</i></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><i><br>
</i></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><i>While there may be guidance here
I am not close enough to the
academic </i><i>world to provide
useful direction.</i></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><i><br>
</i></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><i>5) diversity</i></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><i><br>
</i></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><i>The original intention of the
travel grant was to bring diversity
awareness </i><i>to our osgeo events
(to apply regional events are asked
to set a diversity </i><i>target
which travel grant can help
towards). During foss4g I attended
a </i><i>diversity presentation that
advocated creating a safe space.</i></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><i><br>
</i></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><i>*Guidance: *Trial the use of
providing a safe space in the 2018
bid.</i></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><i><br>
</i></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><i>Similar recommendations online
include:</i></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><i>- make female speakers a
priority (not just in selection, but
before hand</i></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><i>in promotion, one-on-one
mentoring etc...).</i></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><i>- providing child care (this
helps families attend)</i></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><i><br>
</i></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><i>Since these haver not been
advocated by members of our
community I am only </i><i>comfortable
providing guidance on providing a
safe space. Perhaps some of </i><i>these
ideas can be tried out at regional
conferences first.</i></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><i><br>
</i></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><i>6) time of year</i></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><i><br>
</i></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><i>The events have moved from
September/October to August placing
it in the </i><i>way of European
holidays. With the bulk of our
contributors in Europe this </i><i>has
affected how many of our
contributors can attend.</i></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><i><br>
</i></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><i>*Guidance: *Request September /
October event (to maximize
contributors who </i><i>can attend).</i></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><i><br>
</i></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><i>I understand next years event
has plans to turn this into a
holiday for </i><i>families which is
a cunning plan.</i></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><i><br>
</i></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><i>7) travel / accommodation</i></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><i><br>
</i></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><i>I would like to avoid prime
tourist season to avoid asking
attendees pay </i><i>high airfair
and accommodation costs. We did not
have the number in the </i><i>affordability
report to back this up (but Michael
Smith was going to look </i><i>things
up).</i></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><i><br>
</i></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><i>*Guidance: *Request September /
October event (to avoid peak
tourist </i><i>season).</i></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div>Followed by:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px
40px;border:none;padding:0px">
<div>
<div>
<div><i>> 5) diversity</i></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><i>On reflection I am a bit
uncomfortable offering guidance here
- lacking the </i><i>needed
perspective. I would ask that the
conference committee consider </i><i>diversity
as a selection criteria, but would
hold off on providing specific </i><i>advice
listed above. I recognize that the
board as a whole is a diverse </i><i>body
and may be in position to offer
guidance.</i></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><i><br>
</i></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><i>I just don't think it is my
place either as a board member (need
to trust </i><i>the marketing
committee) or as a white male (can
offer only concern, not </i><i>perspective).</i></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><i><br>
</i></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><i>Aside: This whole discussion has
increased my respect for the
conference </i><i>committee, this is
tough stuff. I thank those who
contribute positively as </i><i>part
of the conference committee.</i></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The thing to note is that as a board
member we can offer guidance, or in
extreme cases provide a mandate to a group
that wishes to act. I you asked me "<i style="font-size:12.800000190734863px">HOW
do you wish to correct this" </i><span style="font-size:12.800000190734863px"> the
answer would be to join the conference
committe and help out, an ability each
of us has as a volunteer.</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.800000190734863px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.800000190734863px">The
conference committee has my trust, and
as I understand they are deeply aware
and concerned about this issue.</span></div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div>
<div class="m_623910419033853967m_1093654049569412329m_1953855406890942866gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>--</div>
<div>Jody Garnett</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="m_623910419033853967h5">
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 15 October
2017 at 16:56, Jody Garnett <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jody.garnett@gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">jody.garnett@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>We actually have solid numbers
for this, a report was provided at
the Boston meeting that kind of
answers this to my satisfaction. <br>
<br>
I was waiting for it to be shared
with the membership, since your
question was one I have been asked
repeatedly over the last six
months, especially at foss4ge.<br>
<br>
<div dir="auto">I would really
like you to be able to read the
report and reach your own
conclusion. </div>
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>
<div class="m_623910419033853967m_1093654049569412329m_1953855406890942866h5">
<div>On Sun, Oct 15, 2017 at
4:45 PM Ravi Kumar <<a href="mailto:manarajahmundry2015@gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">manarajahmundry2015@gmail.com</a><wbr>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div class="m_623910419033853967m_1093654049569412329m_1953855406890942866h5">
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
Question (would be
Board). 'Do you agree
that FOSS4G is turning
out to be a hangout
for those who can
afford it'.. costs (of
participation) are <br>
so high that many
might not afford.. If
selected to the board
HOW do you wish to
correct this..<br>
<br>
</div>
Ravi Kumar<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Discuss mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Discuss@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Discuss@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailma<wbr>n/listinfo/discuss</a></blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<span class="m_623910419033853967m_1093654049569412329m_1953855406890942866HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
<div dir="ltr">-- <br>
</div>
<div class="m_623910419033853967m_1093654049569412329m_1953855406890942866m_5086764790311503337gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">--
<div>Jody Garnett</div>
</div>
</div>
</font></span></blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Discuss mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Discuss@lists.osgeo.org" moz-do-not-send="true">Discuss@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.osgeo.org/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/discuss</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
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<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Discuss@lists.osgeo.org">Discuss@lists.osgeo.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a></pre>
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