<div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div><div><div>Hi Jody,<br><br>"While I like the idea of greater charter member involvement, I like the idea of member involvement even more."<br><br></div>How do you wish to realize this. <br></div>Do you think that 'Charter member' vs 'Ordinary Lister/User/Member'.. the later merits more..<br></div>THEN<br></div>Why bother and have a special classification as 'Charter Member'... <br><br></div>Cheers<br></div>Ravi Kumar<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 8:21 AM, Jody Garnett <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jody.garnett@gmail.com" target="_blank">jody.garnett@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I am uncomfortable with the five star presentation you outline. FOSS4G is a open source tech conference that mixes things up in a great creative melting pot, just like our community. Limiting foss4g to just an industry or academic event would sell it short. <br><br>While I recognize Arnulf’s words, I wish we could find another source of funds taking pressure off the conference committee and freeing the organization to use the event more effectively for advocacy. <br>— -<br>Ravi I am going to take your second question as wondering what greater role our charter members can play?<br><br>In this case I am not sure, and need to listen to others - what would you like to see charter members do?<br><br>Right now we have an inclusive setup where anyone can join or organization, take part in a local chapter or a committee. By stepping up as a member, our organization is open to anyone willing to take on responsibility with passion and enthusiasm ... with no requirement to be a charter member.<br><br>While I like the idea of greater charter member involvement, I like the idea of member involvement even more. <br><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 7:16 PM Ravi Kumar <<a href="mailto:manarajahmundry2015@gmail.com" target="_blank">manarajahmundry2015@gmail.com</a><wbr>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div><div><div>Hi Vicky and all my OSGeo listers and particularly those who are following this thread,<br></div>+1 .. OSGeo has blossomed since that meeting in Chicago (2006) attended by some, and Markus Netteler.<br></div>You have FOSS4G Choises now.. Pick, that suites your budget, and philosophy (If you prefer not to see FOSS4G as 5*)..<br><br></div>We depend on the collective wisdom of the board.. We the charter should never tire in Nudging the board with our views.</div><div><br></div><div>Another question to Contenders to the Board:<br></div>Wish a day will come when the Charter can play a more important role than breaking it's sleep walk, to vote now and then.<br><br></div>Cheers</div></div><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div>Ravi Kumar<br><div><div><br> <br></div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 8:38 PM, Vicky Vergara <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:vicky@georepublic.de" target="_blank">vicky@georepublic.de</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Hello Ravi:</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I had the opportunity to attend and to make a presentation on FOSS4G Korea, afterwards, I also made a protestation on FOSS4G Tokyo. That was on 2015, and was the same year I was also elected to be a charter member on OSGeo. This trip was very educational for me, as I got to know more about OSGeo, with the international event and with the local event.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Next year, 2016, even that it would have been great to go to FOSS4G Bonn, given budgets constraints, I opted to go to FOSS4G Asia instead. Lots of students from Asia had participated on OSGeo-GSoC program, and I wanted a close contact with them. The contact was so close that, Rohith Reddy, student from IIIT in Hyderabad and ex-OSGeo-GSoC student, this year acted as mentor and went to the GSoC mentor summit representing OSGeo.<br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">This year for FOSS4G Boston, OSGeo, had a travel grant to which I did not apply, I preferred to go to FOSS4G Argentina (Starts next week), but I did registered and attended the code-sprint (using IRC and jitsi for video).</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> About why Argentina, I saw it as an opportunity to communicate the spirit of OSGeo on my mother tongue, further more, I arranged my trip tohave a 22hr stay in Perú, where they are starting to create a local chapter, and I hope to meet some OSGeo member(s).<br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I also consider FOSS4G as an outreach event, and call it: subconsciously, by accident, by preference, I've being going to the small FOSS4G events after the first one where I learned so much. If you think about it, by not going to the international one, and going to the small FOSS4G, I have been spreading the word to the people that can not afford the trip-accommodation-<wbr>registration costs for the main FOSS4G, and maybe someone else, will use the travel grant, can go learn more about OSGeo on the main international event.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Vicky<br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div class="m_2221765342984882320m_169078958519699886h5"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 9:15 AM, Steven Feldman <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:shfeldman@gmail.com" target="_blank">shfeldman@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div dir="auto" style="word-wrap:break-word">Ravi<div><br></div><div>This could be misinterpreted as some criticism of the volunteers who have staged outstanding FOSS4G events in the last years or even of the attendees who are able to afford to attend. I hope that is not the case?<div><br></div><div>I’m not going to comment further on the challenges of hosting a 1000 person conference and the associated costs, I think Jeff has summed this up well. This discussion has gone round the conference, board and discuss lists for several years. If we want a large event we will have to accept the costs, the ticket price is typically a lot less than the travel, accommodation and meal costs that “out of country” visitors incur. </div><div><br></div><div>The answer, IMO, is to encourage the growth of regional and national FOSS4G to enable lower cost access and to extend our outreach. I have seen little or no evidence presented to support the idea that local and regional events need funding from the centre but if a case can be made then the board should give that consideration and/or delegate that responsibility to the conference committee</div><div><br></div><div>Let’s celebrate the success of our global events and their attendees who do a lot more than “hang out”. These events, through their generous sponsors, provide a lot of the funds for the OSGeo board to use in outreach, code sprints and other activities<br><div>
<span class="m_2221765342984882320m_169078958519699886m_-4763373378620898793m_-1942840266567111660Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse:separate;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">______<span class="m_2221765342984882320m_169078958519699886m_-4763373378620898793HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>Steven<br><br></font></span></span>
</div><div><div class="m_2221765342984882320m_169078958519699886m_-4763373378620898793h5">
<br><div><blockquote type="cite"><div>On 16 Oct 2017, at 07:59, Ravi Kumar <<a href="mailto:manarajahmundry2015@gmail.com" target="_blank">manarajahmundry2015@gmail.com</a><wbr>> wrote:</div><br class="m_2221765342984882320m_169078958519699886m_-4763373378620898793m_-1942840266567111660Apple-interchange-newline"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div>Hi List,<br></div>happy to note that 'FOSS4G being Costly/Unaffordable', is discussed.<br></div>To make it fun, spice is added on the TERM HANGOUT.. <br><br></div>May be the next board will have FOSS4G for Business, where in 5* comforts that might make business easy for OSGeo.<br></div>Will also have, 'FOSS4G Developers', where in young students/Reserchers can have a great conference.<br><br></div> Some fine tuning may make, Say , 1st 2 days 5 Star.. Next two affordable.<br></div>But in a world where, 'COST some times means Efficiency', may not, 'play ball', with this Idea.<br><br></div>Cheers.. and All the best to the Hopefuls<br><br></div>Ravi Kumar<br><div><div><div><div><div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 11:19 AM, Jody Garnett <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jody.garnett@gmail.com" target="_blank">jody.garnett@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Okay I checked that the report is not published yet (sigh). I really appreciated Jeff's answer, and agree that regional foss4g events are seeing great success and are much more affordable.<div><div><br><div>To answer your question:</div><div><span><div><br></div><div><span style="font-size:12.800000190734863px"><i>'Do you agree that FOSS4G is turning out to be a hangout for those who can afford it'</i>.. </span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.800000190734863px"><br></span></div></span><div><span style="font-size:12.800000190734863px">I have never agreed that FOSS4G is a hangout - I continue to view it as our most effective outreach event.</span></div><span><div><br></div><div><i><span style="font-size:12.800000190734863px">costs (of participation) are </span><span style="font-size:12.800000190734863px">so high that many might not afford.. </span></i><br></div><div><i><span style="font-size:12.800000190734863px"><br></span></i></div></span><div><span style="font-size:12.800000190734863px">I very much agree with this, indeed I was only able to attend the Lausanne event by the kindness of people letting me sleep on their hotel floor. I have tried to return the favour each time the event took place in my home city.</span></div><div><i><span style="font-size:12.800000190734863px"><br></span></i></div><div><span style="font-size:12.800000190734863px"><i>If selected to the board HOW do you wish to correct this...</i></span><br></div><div><br></div><div>This is a tricky one, in part because I do not have to imagine - here is my own recommendation from the <a href="mailto:board@osgeo.org" target="_blank">board@osgeo.org</a> email list thread: <a href="https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/board/2017-August/010526.html" target="_blank">f2f meeting follow up</a>:</div><div><br></div><div><div>On 21 August 2017 at 11:23, Jody Garnett <jody.garnett at <a href="http://gmail.com/" target="_blank">gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><div><br></div></div></div></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 40px;border:none;padding:0px"><div><div><div><div><div><i>I saw this thread get into the details of the RFP - for that we have</i></div></div></div></div></div><div><div><i>volunteers on the conference committee. My goal as a board member is to</i></div></div><div><div><i>work on strategy, as the conference committee knows best about the RFP</i></div></div><div><div><i>wording and process.</i></div></div><div><div><i><br></i></div></div><div><div><i>*Q: *Based on the affordability report, and resulting discussion, did we as </i><i>the board have any direction to ask the conference committee to steer in?</i></div></div><div><div><i><br></i></div></div><div><div><i>My own feedback:</i></div></div></blockquote><div><div><br></div></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 40px;border:none;padding:0px"><div><div><div><div><div><i>1) I was pleasantly surprised that the ticket cost of foss4g has not </i><i>changed significantly over the course of the events (indeed our most </i><i>expensive event was Sydney and our cheapest Korea).</i></div></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><i><br></i></div></div></div><div><div><div><i>I do not see any guidance to provide here (this was surprising to me).</i></div></div></div><div><div><div><i><br></i></div></div></div><div><div><div><i>2) Attendance continues to increase limiting appropriate venues</i></div></div></div><div><div><div><i><br></i></div></div></div><div><div><div><i>I do not see any guidence to provide here, our community and event is </i><i>growing. I think once we get around 3000 people we may be forced to settle </i><i>down to consider a fixed location, but at 1000-2000 we can still move it </i><i>around.</i></div></div></div><div><div><div><i><br></i></div></div></div><div><div><div><i>3) regional events are killing it</i></div></div></div><div><div><div><i><br></i></div></div></div><div><div><div><i>I do not see any guidence to provide here, our community and events is </i><i>growing. </i><i>The hope is this takes some of the strain from the global event, allowing </i><i>it to focus on outreach and advocacy more.</i></div></div></div><div><div><div><i><br></i></div></div></div><div><div><div><i>4) hard for students to attend (also journal, etc...)</i></div></div></div><div><div><div><i><br></i></div></div></div><div><div><div><i>There was a strong hope that travel grant program could help out a lot </i><i>here, that would make me sad as this was intended to work towards </i><i>diversity.</i></div></div></div><div><div><div><i><br></i></div></div></div><div><div><div><i>While there may be guidance here I am not close enough to the academic </i><i>world to provide useful direction.</i></div></div></div><div><div><div><i><br></i></div></div></div><div><div><div><i>5) diversity</i></div></div></div><div><div><div><i><br></i></div></div></div><div><div><div><i>The original intention of the travel grant was to bring diversity awareness </i><i>to our osgeo events (to apply regional events are asked to set a diversity </i><i>target which travel grant can help towards). During foss4g I attended a </i><i>diversity presentation that advocated creating a safe space.</i></div></div></div><div><div><div><i><br></i></div></div></div><div><div><div><i>*Guidance: *Trial the use of providing a safe space in the 2018 bid.</i></div></div></div><div><div><div><i><br></i></div></div></div><div><div><div><i>Similar recommendations online include:</i></div></div></div><div><div><div><i>- make female speakers a priority (not just in selection, but before hand</i></div></div></div><div><div><div><i>in promotion, one-on-one mentoring etc...).</i></div></div></div><div><div><div><i>- providing child care (this helps families attend)</i></div></div></div><div><div><div><i><br></i></div></div></div><div><div><div><i>Since these haver not been advocated by members of our community I am only </i><i>comfortable providing guidance on providing a safe space. Perhaps some of </i><i>these ideas can be tried out at regional conferences first.</i></div></div></div><div><div><div><i><br></i></div></div></div><div><div><div><i>6) time of year</i></div></div></div><div><div><div><i><br></i></div></div></div><div><div><div><i>The events have moved from September/October to August placing it in the </i><i>way of European holidays. With the bulk of our contributors in Europe this </i><i>has affected how many of our contributors can attend.</i></div></div></div><div><div><div><i><br></i></div></div></div><div><div><div><i>*Guidance: *Request September / October event (to maximize contributors who </i><i>can attend).</i></div></div></div><div><div><div><i><br></i></div></div></div><div><div><div><i>I understand next years event has plans to turn this into a holiday for </i><i>families which is a cunning plan.</i></div></div></div><div><div><div><i><br></i></div></div></div><div><div><div><i>7) travel / accommodation</i></div></div></div><div><div><div><i><br></i></div></div></div><div><div><div><i>I would like to avoid prime tourist season to avoid asking attendees pay </i><i>high airfair and accommodation costs. We did not have the number in the </i><i>affordability report to back this up (but Michael Smith was going to look </i><i>things up).</i></div></div></div><div><div><div><i><br></i></div></div></div><div><div><div><i>*Guidance: *Request September / October event (to avoid peak tourist </i><i>season).</i></div></div></div></blockquote><div><div><div><br></div></div><div>Followed by:</div><div><br></div></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 40px;border:none;padding:0px"><div><div><div><i>> 5) diversity</i></div></div></div><div><div><div><br></div></div></div><div><div><div><i>On reflection I am a bit uncomfortable offering guidance here - lacking the </i><i>needed perspective. I would ask that the conference committee consider </i><i>diversity as a selection criteria, but would hold off on providing specific </i><i>advice listed above. I recognize that the board as a whole is a diverse </i><i>body and may be in position to offer guidance.</i></div></div></div><div><div><div><i><br></i></div></div></div><div><div><div><i>I just don't think it is my place either as a board member (need to trust </i><i>the marketing committee) or as a white male (can offer only concern, not </i><i>perspective).</i></div></div></div><div><div><div><i><br></i></div></div></div><div><div><div><i>Aside: This whole discussion has increased my respect for the conference </i><i>committee, this is tough stuff. I thank those who contribute positively as </i><i>part of the conference committee.</i></div></div></div></blockquote><div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>The thing to note is that as a board member we can offer guidance, or in extreme cases provide a mandate to a group that wishes to act. I you asked me "<i style="font-size:12.800000190734863px">HOW do you wish to correct this" </i><span style="font-size:12.800000190734863px"> the answer would be to join the conference committe and help out, an ability each of us has as a volunteer.</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.800000190734863px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.800000190734863px">The conference committee has my trust, and as I understand they are deeply aware and concerned about this issue.</span></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div class="m_2221765342984882320m_169078958519699886m_-4763373378620898793m_-1942840266567111660m_1093654049569412329m_1953855406890942866gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div>--</div><div>Jody Garnett</div></div></div></div></div></div><div><div class="m_2221765342984882320m_169078958519699886m_-4763373378620898793m_-1942840266567111660h5">
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On 15 October 2017 at 16:56, Jody Garnett <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jody.garnett@gmail.com" target="_blank">jody.garnett@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>We actually have solid numbers for this, a report was provided at the Boston meeting that kind of answers this to my satisfaction. <br><br>I was waiting for it to be shared with the membership, since your question was one I have been asked repeatedly over the last six months, especially at foss4ge.<br><br><div dir="auto">I would really like you to be able to read the report and reach your own conclusion. </div><br></div><div><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div class="m_2221765342984882320m_169078958519699886m_-4763373378620898793m_-1942840266567111660m_1093654049569412329m_1953855406890942866h5"><div>On Sun, Oct 15, 2017 at 4:45 PM Ravi Kumar <<a href="mailto:manarajahmundry2015@gmail.com" target="_blank">manarajahmundry2015@gmail.com</a><wbr>> wrote:<br></div></div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div class="m_2221765342984882320m_169078958519699886m_-4763373378620898793m_-1942840266567111660m_1093654049569412329m_1953855406890942866h5"><div><div><br><br>Question (would be Board). 'Do you agree that FOSS4G is turning out
to be a hangout for those who can afford it'.. costs (of participation)
are <br>so high that many might not afford.. If selected to the board HOW do you wish to correct this..<br><br></div>Ravi Kumar<br></div></div></div>
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Salzmannstraße 44,
81739 München, Germany
Vicky Vergara
Operations Research
eMail: vicky@<a href="http://georepublic.de" target="_blank">georepublic.de</a>
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Tel: +49 (089) 4161 7698-1
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