<div dir="ltr">Arnulf, <div><br></div><div>Personally, I'm annoyed with that response - I was halfway through responding and you've articulated my personal thoughts in a much more concise and good manner - thank you!! :-)</div><div><br></div><div>All, </div><div><br></div><div>I would request people to engage as much as possible at this years (and subsequent years!) FOSS4G. We have an exciting program and we are bringing together as diverse a community as possible - this year's FOSS4G is in Dar es Salaam - our mission is to raise awareness of our community and provide the fullest opportunity of our community to geospatially enable our planet in the future. With the future that we have, over 1 billion people in extreme poverty, unchecked urban population growth, climate change and other challenges, our time is now - we can all work together to deliver the best possible outcomes for FOSS4G and OSGeo.</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div><br></div><div>Mark</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 26 February 2018 at 12:23, Seven (aka Arnulf) <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:seven@arnulf.us" target="_blank">seven@arnulf.us</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
Folks, <br>
we have seriously discussed this over and again to the point of
boredom. Still, I am happy that the topic comes up again and again
because it shows that people are alert. Good. <br>
<br>
Having said that, we need to be as precise as possible in our terms
and definitions. Every now and then this blurs over. <br>
<br>
Therefore allow me to give a quick primer: When we say "Open Source"
and "Free Software" we basically mean the same thing: Software that
is licensed under one of the 40+ officially respected licenses
ranging from the GNU GPL over BSD and MIT to the WTFPL. <br>
<br>
Please refrain from using the term "Open Software" because it is
imprecise and only good to confuse people. Do not say "closed
Software" either because it may imply that it is more secure (like
"locked" and "safe"). Most evilly wrong: Never say "Commercial
Software" because it connotes that we cannot do business with Open
Source and that commercial enterprises cannot use it to make money
which is both wrong and hurts commercial development of Open Source
businesses. The opposite to Free and Open Source Software Licenses
are proprietary licenses (and believe me, proprietary vendors hate
this term). <br>
<br>
We should not make the impression that there is no business to be
done with Open Source software. People have to understand that we do
not charge fees for licenses and give the software away for free -
but that we do charge fees for developing and maintaining it, when
we actually "do" something. This can be maintenance, development,
training, SLA-contracts, implementing the newest standard or
whatever else may come up, you know how 95% of IT-revenue is done.
Only a fraction of 5% really come from proprietary licenses, not
more! <br>
<br>
Next: When we say "Open Source" and "Free Software" we also often
"mean" a lot of additional things. One very dear to OSGeo is
"community based" and "good governance". But this is not necessarily
part of the license! It is only our interpretation of how Open
Source should be done (and I totally believe in it). <br>
<br>
We should also be clear that anybody can use and support Free and
Open Source Software for any purpose. This explicitly includes Esri
and Oracle and Microsoft and all the other proprietary vendors. And
why not? <br>
<br>
How do we deal with them at a conference? Like any other business.
If they like we even invite them to a plenary talk, get a versed
speaker from our trenches and let him or her publicly dissect all
their proprietary arguments. This gives Open Source a much better
voice than to just to ban them. They know we are so good at doing
this that you will even have a hard time getting anyone on a plenary
at all.<br>
<br>
We have also publicly invited proprietary brethren to participate in
performance shoot-outs and the result was invariable showing how
good we are. This is much cooler and shows much more self-efficacy
than denying entry to anybody. <br>
<br>
Autodesk has tried to go Open Source and they basically failed. But
they funded the fledgling OSGeo Foundation and now look at where we
are. <br>
<br>
It appears that we are still not done educating folks who are still
stuck on proprietary stacks. <br>
<br>
Lastly, how do we prevent an evil proprietary vendor from luring our
conference attendees into believing that proprietary software is
better than Open Source? Well, let them give a talk and if they say
anything stupid or even wrong about Open Source they will be ripped
to little pieces by the audience, believe me. <br>
<br>
<br>
Thanks for listening. <br><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
<br>
Seven</font></span><div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="m_5718125980296370294moz-cite-prefix">Am 26.02.2018 um 17:03 schrieb Hogan,
Patrick (ARC-PX):<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="m_5718125980296370294WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="m_5718125980296370294__MailEndCompose"><font color="#1f497d" size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Sergio,<u></u><u></u></span></font></a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I
for one am delighted to hear your well expressed concern.
In point of fact, ESRI certainly has no real interest in
open source. They are there to make as much money as
possible and don’t mind playing rough to get it. That is
not to suggest we cannot find ways to live and even work
together. Though like you said and said well “This
approach should make OSGeo more alert.” On another but
related issue, I am still curious as to where ESRI and the
OS community are on LiDAR format and compression as ^one^
open standard.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">-Patrick<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
Discuss [<a class="m_5718125980296370294moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:discuss-bounces@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">mailto:discuss-bounces@lists.<wbr>osgeo.org</a>] <b><span style="font-weight:bold">On Behalf Of
</span></b>SERGIO ACOSTAYLARA<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b>
Monday, February 26, 2018 7:03 AM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> María
Arias de Reyna; André Cruvinel Resende<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b> OSGeo
Discussions<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b>
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4G 2018 sponsorship<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p><font color="black" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Stefano,
certainly you are NOT the only one. In the past I have
expressed my concern about this fact. It's as if Monsanto
were sponsoring an organic food event. I don't think
ESRI (or Google or IBM or others) approaches OSGeo
innocently. This approach should make OSGeo more alert.
And distrust their intentions. I remember that some years
ago ESRI did not let gvSIG people even assist an ESRI
conference. And now what has changed? That the
FOSS4G movement is now "cool". So it makes these companies
present themselves as OS ("we support the OS movement, we
even sponsor their events", even "we are OS") and it is
easier for them to enter certain places (later it is more
difficult for them to leave). Maybe these companies should
be asked something more than money in exchange for
sponsoring the FOSS4G. And see how far they can get with
that support to the FOSS4G movement...<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p><font color="black" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<div id="m_5718125980296370294Signature">
<div name="divtagdefaultwrapper">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Sergio
Acosta y Lara<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Departamento
de Geomática<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Dirección
Nacional de Topografía<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Ministerio
de Transporte y Obras Públicas<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">URUGUAY<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">(598)29157933
ints. 20329/20330<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><a href="http://geoportal.mtop.gub.uy/" id="m_5718125980296370294NoLP" target="_blank">http://geoportal.mtop.gub.uy/</a><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center" align="center"><font color="#212121" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#212121">
<hr width="98%" size="3" align="center">
</span></font></div>
<div id="m_5718125980296370294divRplyFwdMsg">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font color="black" size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black;font-weight:bold">De:</span></font></b><font color="black" size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">
Discuss <<a href="mailto:discuss-bounces@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">discuss-bounces@lists.osgeo.<wbr>org</a>>
en nombre de María Arias de Reyna <<a href="mailto:delawen@gmail.com" target="_blank">delawen@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Enviado:</span></b>
lunes, 26 de febrero de 2018 4:34<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Para:</span></b>
André Cruvinel Resende<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b> OSGeo
Discussions<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Asunto:</span></b>
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4G 2018 sponsorship</span></font><font color="#212121" face="Calibri"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#212121"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#212121" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#212121"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><font color="#212121" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#212121">Hi,<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><font color="#212121" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#212121">I
share your fears. But on the other hand,
the list of sponsors is not closed for
this year, I know for sure there are
open source companies that are still
pending to be shown there. GeoCat for
example, being a small SME in
comparison, will do the yearly effort to
be a key sponsor proving that open
source companies support FOSS4G events.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><font color="#212121" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#212121">You
know (because I have been tiring on this
subject) that I am completely against
openwashing. And I will not be comfortable
(and protest) if FOSS4G is used as a
platform to promote closed source
software. If I see a track full of selling
closed architectures and software or some
keynote talking about the greatness of
closed software, I will be angry. But
until now, we have had closed source
companies sponsoring OSGeo and the "worst"
thing we have had is some talk with a lot
of openwashing that made us laugh. No big
harm, but useful to reopen the debate and
refresh terms.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><font color="#212121" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#212121">Look
at it like this: If a closed source software
company (and I won't say ESRI here, because
we have more examples, don't focus only on
one) wants to sponsor an FLOSS conference...
look at it as a small fee for all the work
they are reusing from our open side. Is it
the only budget they spend on open source?
Is it because they want to get close to the
community and keep in touch with the state
of the art software in the industry? Great!
If anything, I would be more worried if they
had no interest in FLOSS. This means we are
an important piece of the industry and they
want to be involved, either to -steal-
research about our way of working, our ideas
or whatever we have.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><font color="#212121" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#212121">Big
companies with closed software history can't
change from one day to another. Can you
imagine Microsoft announcing Windows is going
to be FLOSS? Would be insane and dangerous (if
a code is going to be FLOSS, it should be
FLOSS from the beginning to avoid big security
holes in the open that come inherently on
closed software). Let them get closer and,
maybe in the future, they will become real
FLOSS advocators.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><font color="#212121" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#212121">While
they "only" sponsor and maybe promote the
¿little? job they do on FLOSS, I am fine. If
they want to cross that line and start a
conversation about how great closed software is,
then we will have to stop them.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#212121" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#212121">Regards,<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#212121" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#212121">María.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#212121" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#212121"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#212121" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#212121"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#212121" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#212121">On
Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 2:49
AM, André Cruvinel Resende
<<a href="mailto:andrecr@gmail.com" target="_blank">andrecr@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#212121" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#212121">Folks,<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#212121" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#212121"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#212121" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#212121">We
have had this fear in
the past.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#212121" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#212121"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#212121" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#212121">I
remember when Autodesk
decided to open Mapguide
and some of us were
furious and upset and
worried about our
community's influence
and decisions.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#212121" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#212121"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#212121" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#212121">It
seems that in the end It
was not that important
and It does not kill
Mapserver. <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#212121" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#212121"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#212121" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#212121">Good
and open week. (And mind
too)<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#212121" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#212121"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="white" size="5" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:17.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:white;background:#4285f4"><a href="https://mapguide.osgeo.org/about.html" target="_blank">https://mapguide.osgeo.org/<wbr>about.html</a>.
</span></font><font color="#212121" face="Calibri"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#212121"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="white" size="5" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:17.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:white;background:#4285f4"><br>
<br>
</span></font><font color="#888888" face="Calibri"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#888888"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="white" size="5" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:17.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:white;background:#4285f4">André
Cruvinel.</span></font><font color="#888888" face="Calibri"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#888888"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="white" size="5" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:17.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:white;background:#4285f4"><br>
<br>
</span></font><font color="#212121" face="Calibri"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#212121"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#212121" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#212121">Em
25 de fev de 2018
7:11 PM, "Jody
Garnett" <<a href="mailto:jody.garnett@gmail.com" target="_blank">jody.garnett@gmail.com</a>> escreveu:<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#212121" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#212121">I
do not think of it
as just an emotive
response - some
business models do
not match our
ideals as an
organization
(requirement to
purchase a
platform
subscription for
services, or an
API key for data
use). While some
organizations
match our ideals,
but I do not like
the ethics
(dumping software
to opensource as
part of an exit
strategy).
<br>
<br>
Both these
approaches use
open source as a
tool, but to
enable behaviour
that is not
necessarily
collaborative. The
free-and-open end
of the open source
pool is working on
this, but it is a
big pool and we
want to help
everyone.
<br>
<br>
I see our role as
changing the the
playing field over
time so that these
business models do
perform as well as
the ones that
embrace,
contribute to and
leverage open
source.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#212121" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#212121">On
Sun, Feb 25,
2018 at 1:59
PM <<a href="mailto:bradh@frogmouth.net" target="_blank">bradh@frogmouth.net</a>>
wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#212121" size="3" face="Times
New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121" lang="EN-AU">Indeed GDAL/OGR uses
some ESRI
code, example:<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#212121" size="3" face="Times
New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121" lang="EN-AU"><a href="https://github.com/OSGeo/gdal/blob/a1df7cb9df2fe3cbcfac974b434b01ac6a1946e5/gdal/frmts/mrf/JPEG_band.cpp#L21" target="_blank">https://github.com/OSGeo/gdal/<wbr>blob/<wbr>a1df7cb9df2fe3cbcfac974b434b01<wbr>ac6a1946e5/gdal/frmts/mrf/<wbr>JPEG_band.cpp#L21</a><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#212121" size="3" face="Times
New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121" lang="EN-AU"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#212121" size="3" face="Times
New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121" lang="EN-AU">If you don’t want
anyone with
competing
products,
it’ll be a
short list,
and somewhat
difficult to
justify (e.g.
OSGeo has lots
of software
that is mostly
developed and
tested against
Oracle’s Java,
but Oracle
Spatial is an
alternative to
PostGIS). If
you don’t want
anyone who
does patents,
it’ll exclude
most of the
big IT
companies.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#212121" size="3" face="Times
New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121" lang="EN-AU"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#212121" size="3" face="Times
New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121" lang="EN-AU">Is this just an
emotive
response?<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#212121" size="3" face="Times
New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121" lang="EN-AU"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#212121" size="3" face="Times
New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121" lang="EN-AU">Brad<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#212121" size="3" face="Times
New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121" lang="EN-AU"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#212121" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#212121">______________________________<wbr>_________________
<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#212121" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#212121"><br>
Discuss
mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Discuss@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">Discuss@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss" target="_blank">https://lists.osgeo.org/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/discuss</a><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#888888" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#888888">--
<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#888888" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#888888">--
<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#888888" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#888888">Jody
Garnett<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#212121" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#212121"><br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Discuss mailing
list<br>
<a href="mailto:Discuss@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">Discuss@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss" target="_blank">https://lists.osgeo.org/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/discuss</a><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#212121" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#212121"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#212121" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#212121"><br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Discuss mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Discuss@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">Discuss@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss" target="_blank">https://lists.osgeo.org/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/discuss</a><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#212121" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#212121"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="m_5718125980296370294mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre>______________________________<wbr>_________________
Discuss mailing list
<a class="m_5718125980296370294moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Discuss@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">Discuss@lists.osgeo.org</a>
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</blockquote>
<br>
</div></div></div>
<br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Discuss mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Discuss@lists.osgeo.org">Discuss@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.osgeo.org/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/discuss</a><br></blockquote></div><br></div>