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<p>Could each of us please be a bit more measured and forgiving when
responding. It seems a few words have been selected which caused
more offense than intended. <br>
</p>
<p>I remember Jeff McKenna once saying that he sometimes takes a
step back from the keyboard for a day or so before responding, and
being much kinder and wiser as a consequence (my memory of Jeff's
words). I can think of a few emails Jeff sent where I think he
did just that - his excellent email describing his reasons for
wanting to join the current OSGeo board comes to mind.</p>
<p>Confrontational tit-for-tat conversation is uncomfortable and if
we take it too far, we will find that productive members of our
community will start silently dropping off.<br>
</p>
In response to Sara:<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 22/6/18 7:50 am, Sara wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAF+W3R6Uy95Y4dWGZ4grURcQbvmFfSsAgQbEK0n7VQ4X87aUhQ@mail.gmail.com">
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px">Cameron said:</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px">> </span><span
style="font-size:12.8px">We should do our best to ensure
opinions are stated respectfully, and encourage forgiveness
when we slip up and get a bit passionate.</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px">I'm not sure who you are
referring to with this, but please do let me know if you mean
me.</span></div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Sara, I'll discus one statement: <br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 15/6/18 4:23 am, Sara wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAF+W3R5DUHRdPoFR=-Z19WJug0FO7cybxGZHxq_fVxAfe9Hd8Q@mail.gmail.com">Sure,
happy to explain further: my request is for information that
LocationTech already stated publicly was "open", "has always
been", and would be posted to OSGeo's wiki -- to actually be made
open and posted to the wiki. If LocationTech either misspoke,
lied, or changed their mind on that then as a community
member/volunteer/sponsor I would like to know why. I'm not alone
in this, either: I'm just today's squeaky wheel. :)</blockquote>
You have a valid concern, and a question which should be asked. But
in asking it, consider how could Marc could answer and save face in
the process. Consider that there might be internal conversations
within LocationTech where someone, maybe Marc, is trying to defend a
decision to back OSGeo. I think this is a leading question into any
response by Marc leading to an implication of guilt. An extreme
example of this type of question is when a man might be asked: "Have
you stopped beating your wife?" Both responses of "Yes" and "No"
imply he has beaten his wife.<br>
I'd hope that if you decided to reword your question, you'd avoid
selecting the word "lied", which implies deliberate wrong doing.<br>
<br>
Re Marc's comment:<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 15/6/18 10:00 am, Marc Vloemans
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:A92D2FDA-E18D-49EA-8F57-4459580BB3F2@gmail.com">
<pre wrap="">The demands made by Sara Safavi to give insight into the books are not appropriate. Comparable to a customer asking her employer (Planet Labs) to open their books to a customer.</pre>
</blockquote>
I think this statement also went too far. I suspect Marc might have
felt threatened by having his employer attacked and replied using a
similar line of argument. Hopefully if he responded again he'd
select different words.<br>
<br>
But my bottom line is please lets empathise with the sometimes
difficult situations that our co-volunteers are placed in, and see
if we can help them work through them. Assume best intent, forgive,
support, encourage. <br>
<br>
Maria, re the Code-of-Conduct, I agree with Christian. Rewriting it
to create rules which consider all future opportunities for human
conflict is utopian, impractical and ultimately unachievable. There
have been a huge number of person-hours which have been put into the
numerous Code-Of-Conducts which our OSGeo Code-Of-Conduct was based
upon. I think we keep our Code-of-Conduct as simple as possible, and
rely on our underlying morals, ethics, and collective intelligence
to address concerns as they arise.<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 22/6/18 10:24 pm, Christian Willmes
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:d243aef7-fb7f-4d3f-fb1b-01b79e648267@uni-koeln.de">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
I do not think this is about the CoC. It is about if and how a
valid request by a community member is handled/answered (or not).
<p>This is a matter of transparency and openness on the one side,
and assumed things like respect, manners, decency, or just civil
good behavior of holding to a given word/promise.</p>
<p>Marc can for sure just say, I/we do not want to publish the
record. If there are no valid understandable reasons given for
not publishing them, even if promised otherwise, OSGeo can say,
ok thanks for letting us know, and draw their due consequence
from this. <br>
</p>
<p>Improving the CoC is good, but for this case it does not really
matter, I think. Everybody can see, that there were unnecessary
offense given and taken... how could the best CoC in the world
help prevent this situation?<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 22.06.2018 um 12:51 schrieb Andrea
Aime:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CA+nxMTtcKBspaRcLZqXn-UVksWjoDJgpFEyPHb9daQp7nci6Gg@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 11:51 AM,
María Arias de Reyna <span dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:delawen@gmail.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">delawen@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote"><span class="">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0
0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>I think this email, cited by Sara Safavi,
from Marc Vloemans [1] is just
unbelievable and thus unacceptable to this
community.<br>
</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span>
<div>Personally I agree with you that it was an
uncomfortable situation easy to misinterpret. I
wasn't comfortable either reading it. (me, the
person, not the board)<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Agreed, I was neither.</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>The thing is, we still have this "assume good
intent" clause on the CoC that makes it kind of
useless on the gray area.</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I would suggest revising the CoC then, otherwise all
the talk about supporting diversity is kind of done in
vain imho</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cheers</div>
<div>Andrea</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
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</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Cameron Shorter
Technology Demystifier
Open Technologies and Geospatial Consultant
M +61 (0) 419 142 254</pre>
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