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I think I'm safe in assessing that all of us contributing to this
discussion (and probably many more lurking) believe in promoting
diversity. We might disagree on relevance of specific scientific
papers, but I feel we should not be distracted by our differences
and rather should focus on what we collectively agree on and can
achieve together.<br>
<br>
When I was married, an old wise relative advised "you can be right,
or you can be happy". I'll modify that for Open Source by saying
"you can be right, or you can have a collaborative community". <br>
<br>
While this message is intended for all of us, Maria, I'm especially
thinking about you. I see in you contagious passion, and can-do
commitment to back that up. I'd love to see many of us in the
community rallying behind you even more than done already. And I
think that the more you are embracing and adopting the ideas of
others the more successful you will become.<br>
<br>
Keep up the enthusiasm, Cameron<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 13/08/2018 11:39 PM, Guido Stein
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAGPdrTdg1+3fCfeXvBdvU6gBXe1+2__8KUF-kvv=BQ71Ry6Cgw@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<div dir="ltr">Hey folks,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It is great to see so much discussion about what our
standard as a community are for defining a successfully event.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I would suggest that we codify our goals towards diversity
and inclusion into the Code of Conduct (CoC). This would make
it clearer about what values we as a community hold and aspire
to.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Please let me express my respect for everyone else's
thoughts and feelings here. I am a sys white mail in my 40s
who has been part of many communities including ones where the
majority are male, female, Chilean, or white guys. I cannot
speak for anyone else and I hope that the comments I share are
taken in the positive helpful manor in which I intent them to
be.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>When I was working on the FOSS4G Boston 2017 I was
overwhelmed by the many factors that go into choosing speakers
and keynotes. My intention for the conference was to be as
inclusive and welcoming as I could make it. I attempted to do
this by bringing multiple local communities which I knew about
into the planning of the event and also trying to encourage
people to do out reach to groups that I felt were not well
represented.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I am still not sure how to judge how I did in this effort.
Is the goal to invite the right people who would represent the
community? Is the goal to make sure you have the right mix of
people who would represent the community? What is the
benchmark? Which underrepresented group should you be
measuring? Can you ask demographic questions of people
attending to measure your success?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Personally, I struggled with the idea of diversity. Not
that diversity isn't important, but creating diversity may
sometimes lead to quotas and tokenism. I never want someone to
feel like they are being singled out to participate because I
need to reach a diversity goal.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>For me it would be helpful if our values and priorities
around diversity were written out in the CoC. I think there
could be a strong case made for focusing our community efforts
on bringing more women into our events, but I also think the
same could be said for communities of color, youth,
impoverished, and others.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I think that being clear and specific about what goals and
objectives we have as a community is an important step towards
understanding who we are as a community.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I look forward to the continued discussion.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thank you for your time,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Guido</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 8:38 AM adam steer <<a
href="mailto:adam.d.steer@gmail.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">adam.d.steer@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Hi all
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I appreciate this topic arising. I appreciate the
efforts of the FOSS4G Dar committee; and the reasons
for their decisions. I also appreciate that the FOSS4G
Asia LOC have a different operating environment and
look forward to hearing about their drivers. And I
appreciate discussion about various factors affecting
diversity and audiences. From FOSS4G Oceania
experience it’s not an easy discussion to get right -
I hope we all make the best effort we can.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I also want to avoid papering over a substantially
disheartening part of this particular e-mail
conversation.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Earlier in this discussion thread a research paper
was rolled out as evidence that women choose to do
STEM less; with the argument following that aiming for
levels of attendance and speakership at FOSS4G
conferences which represent the population is
over-reach; and then a few people jumping on the
sciencing wagon.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So I read the paper. …and I'm puzzled that in 2018,
such a work would be latched onto and held up as truth
without question. I would certainly not try to use it
as a platform to base a solid argument on.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>What was more disappointing is that this work was
repeatedly held up as canon and defended, as a counter
to Maria’s patient attempts to inject some living
experience into discussion about a topic on which she
has invested vast time and energy (and whose initial
assessment of the work was actually completely
correct)!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>A great first step to increase diversity and
inclusion would be to avoid this type of top down
lecturing and engage with experience - and then
listen. To stories like Vicky’s. To the experience of
Maria and Maria; to the committee from FOSS4G Asia who
have made choices for reasons we don’t know; and from
FOSS4G in Dar, who made choices for very clear reasons
because they were able to; and aimed to have a
specific impact (which I hope, has worked).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Back to lurking now.. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Adam</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div
class="m_-7106958347682096980m_7028390804036455865gmail-m_7987883871701076916gmail-m_-5915710866577083920gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Dr. Adam Steer<br>
<a
href="https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Adam_Steer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Adam_Steer</a><br>
<a href="http://au.linkedin.com/in/adamsteer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://au.linkedin.com/in/adamsteer</a></div>
<div><a
href="http://orcid.org/0000-0003-0046-7236"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://orcid.org/0000-0003-0046-7236</a><br>
<a href="tel:+61%20427%20091%20712"
value="+61427091712" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">+61 427 091 712</a><br>
skype: adam.d.steer</div>
<div>tweet: @adamdsteer</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 13 August 2018 at 21:21, Jeff
McKenna <span dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:jmckenna@gatewaygeomatics.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">jmckenna@gatewaygeomatics.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Thank
you for sharing these personal stories Vicky.<br>
<br>
There are so many different cultural factors at our
FOSS4G events around the world.<br>
<br>
How can we make sure that FOSS4G events are both
diverse and inclusive?<br>
<br>
I think the first step is always to try contacting the
FOSS4G local committee directly. And if you are
concerned of a FOSS4G event but don't know who to
contact, just send me a quick email and I'll forward
you the direct contact. In the case of FOSS4G-Asia, I
would forward you to Nimalika from OSGeo-Sri Lanka,
who has been so kind to listen and take the advice
back to her local organizing committee, where they can
discuss and make the necessary changes.<br>
<br>
I also feel that old-school talking directly is still
very important, and look forward to speaking directly
of these issues with leaders Malena, María and others
in Dar es Salaam. This is why I hop on a plane for a
40 hour trip, to work together on these issues so we
can all continue to create great FOSS4G events of all
sizes.<span
class="m_-7106958347682096980m_7028390804036455865HOEnZb"><font
color="#888888"><br>
<br>
-jeff</font></span>
<div>
<div
class="m_-7106958347682096980m_7028390804036455865h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 2018-08-13 12:57 AM, Vicky Vergara wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div
class="m_-7106958347682096980m_7028390804036455865h5">
Hi all<br>
<br>
I went to the last FOSS4G Asia in Hyderabad,
India, within IIIT university premises.<br>
There I met wonderful students.<br>
I was actually impressed with a particular
female student, very bright, and with lots of
ideas to tell.<br>
<br>
I invited her to eat out.<br>
She could not go out of the university, because
her father had forbidden her to go out of the
University premises.<br>
I asked, where is your father?<br>
She told me he lived about 300km to the north,
and that when she needed to go out, he would
drive to take her to where she needed to go.<br>
<br>
Culture: not obey the (family/religion/legal)
rules is not an option.<br>
She follows the rules, she is obedient.<br>
<br>
What do you expect for woman who live that kind
of culture, that we don't understand, not even a
1%?<br>
If woman like her, get invited to be a keynote
speaker, what is the probability for her to go?<br>
<br>
Can you fight a culture that is completely
different to occidental cultures?<br>
Can you fight that culture, sitting in front of
your computer, in England, USA, Mexico?<br>
<br>
What would you tell her if you had that
conversation?<br>
In my particular case, I told her:<br>
I am sure my father has the same concerns as
your father, that is why he came with me.<br>
<br>
And we ate in the University.<br>
<br>
I invited my father, I paid his airplane ticket,
hotel, food, souvenir, etc.<br>
The reason that I invited him is: I wanted to
fit in the culture as much as possible.<br>
When passing through customs, he was called, and
he had to do the talking.<br>
When going shopping or eating, the cashier first
interaction was directed to him.<br>
<br>
I can't fight a culture, I have to blend in.<br>
<br>
But I am glad that, this student's father is
letting her study.<br>
And maybe, in the future, she will have
daughters that will go to the University and
they will be able to go out of the University
premises to eat.<br>
And she will have grand-daughters that will can
go out of the country (without a chaperon) and
be speakers.<br>
<br>
Regards<br>
Vicky<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<span>
On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 6:19 PM, Ben
Caradoc-Davies <<a
href="mailto:ben@transient.nz" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">ben@transient.nz</a>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:ben@transient.nz"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">ben@transient.nz</a>>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
On 12/08/18 21:14, María Arias de Reyna wrote:<br>
<br>
No, this is not a dismissal based on
opinions. It is based on facts.<br>
This paper falls into the "correlation
does not imply causation"<br>
fallacy:<a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation</a><br>
<<a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation</a>><br>
<br>
<br>
Yes, but lack of correlation refutes
causation. That is their point:<br>
gender equality does *not* cause equality of
STEM gender outcomes.<br>
<br>
Science requires humility. There is no greater
experience in science<br>
than refuting your own hypothesis because it
means that you might<br>
have discovered something non-obvious. The
obvious hypothesis in<br>
this study was that equality of STEM gender
outcomes would improve<br>
with gender equality. Their surprising
discovery is the opposite.<br>
While there is much conjecture as to the
cause, the core finding is<br>
remarkable, good science, and worthy of
publication (in my<br>
uninformed opinion as a layman).<br>
<br>
Kind regards,<br>
<br>
</span></blockquote>
<br>
<div
class="m_-7106958347682096980m_7028390804036455865HOEnZb">
<div
class="m_-7106958347682096980m_7028390804036455865h5">
<br>
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<br>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">-- <br>
<div
class="m_-7106958347682096980m_7028390804036455865gmail_signature"
data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Adam Steer<br>
<a
href="https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Adam_Steer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Adam_Steer</a><br>
<a href="http://au.linkedin.com/in/adamsteer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://au.linkedin.com/in/adamsteer</a></div>
<div><a href="http://orcid.org/0000-0003-0046-7236"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://orcid.org/0000-0003-0046-7236</a><br>
<a href="tel:+61%20427%20091%20712"
value="+61427091712" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">+61 427 091 712</a><br>
skype: adam.d.steer</div>
<div>tweet: @adamdsteer</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Cameron Shorter
Technology Demystifier
Open Technologies and Geospatial Consultant
M +61 (0) 419 142 254</pre>
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