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<pre><font size="2"><font face="Arial">Sorry if I repeat myself but the post was in parallel to mine and Lauentiu might not have read mine due to that.
As a German citizen I can not let this go unanswered </font>
>>> From <b>Laurențiu Nicola</b>
>>> First, was that a Nazi salute? Only Musk would know for sure, but the gesture is centuries-old (at least, I suspect more)
>>> and the context doesn't feel quite right. For what it's worth, many Jews and Jewish associations weren't bothered by it,
>>> and I'm inclined to trust them on that. He should apologize, but given his personality, that's not going to happen. >>>
</font><font face="Arial" size="2">I hope the tendency in our society to make foolish excuses for obvious actions will stop altogether. What really does not matter is whether the person
<em>meant</em> it to be a Nazi salute—the important thing is that it <em>obviously</em> was one.</font></pre>
<p><font face="Arial" size="2">As someone else posted in this
thread, this is exactly the kind of problem described here: <a
rel="noopener" target="_new"
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance"><span>Paradox</span><span>
of</span><span> tolerance</span></a>.</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial" size="2">There is no excuse for him not to
apologize, no matter what. And if you haven’t heard any Jewish
voices complaining, let me, as a German, object with all I have.
This is gut-wrenching. Let me just say this much—many in my
family died because of the Nazis.</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial" size="2">The body language while speaking is
100% unmistakable. It’s the Roman greeting, which later became
the Mussolini and Nazi salute, and he did it twice on the world
stage.</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial" size="2">To be clear and to summarize: It
wasn’t something "like" a Nazi salute—no, it was <em>exactly</em>
that, done twice, and on the world stage!</font></p>
<pre><font face="Arial" size="2">Actions must lead to consequences. There is zero doubt about what he did and about what he intentionally displayed on the world stage.
The guy is not some idiot who does not know what he does. This was no harmless fun talk between friends in a local bar. There can be absolutely
no foolish excuses. There must be no tolerance for this. Neo-Nazis have already celebrated what happened!</font></pre>
<pre><font size="2">>>> So to sum up:
>>> - I'm not convinced that was a Nazi salute, but I don't think it matters too much,
<font face="Arial">I could not disagree more. This essentially is all that matters.
Let me add this sarcastic quote from someone on </font></font><font
size="2"><font face="Arial">Youtube</font></font><font size="2"><font
face="Arial">:
<span
class="yt-core-attributed-string yt-core-attributed-string--white-space-pre-wrap"
dir="auto" role="text">"</span><span
class="yt-core-attributed-string yt-core-attributed-string--white-space-pre-wrap"
dir="auto" role="text">Just because he retweets Nazis and endorses the modern Nazi party of Germany and embraces Nazi ideology and makes
the Nazi salute doesn’t mean he’s a Nazi. It’s probably just an unfortunate coincidence.</span><span
class="yt-core-attributed-string yt-core-attributed-string--white-space-pre-wrap"
dir="auto" role="text">"</span></font>
>>> - I think we should be posting on the X account, but if we don't, we should remove the link
>>> - we have to add a Mastodon link
>>> - if we feel that using X means endorsing Musk and Trump, we shouldn't post there
>>> - I've seen so many "worse than Musk" people on the other social networks that I can't endorse them in good faith either
>>> Laurentiu</font></pre>
<p></p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Best Karsten<br>
<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/21/2025 23:24, Karsten Vennemann
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:d234ace2-6031-4f96-ad21-fe62723cdaa4@terragis.net">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<p><font size="4" face="Arial">I do agree in general that there
should be a transparent decision process yes</font><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/21/2025 18:38, Gabriel Roldan
via Discuss wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CADTfY6KMGGmRL2PTOe=-86_AUd72FB_1tdJQRUBO99agtY-erA@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type"
content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="auto">“My heart goes out to you” doesn’t seem Nazi at
all to me. Although maybe little Adolf might have said that
sometime, I don’t know really. I do hope though if you
sometime see me trying to stop a taxi or calling a friend’s
attention from a distance you won’t make the same assumption
about my political preferen</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Dear Gabriel, I do not know what nationality you are, mine is
German and as such (with the dark history of my country in
regards to the Nazis which undoubtedly distinctly influences
everyone's upbringing and education there) I am extremely
sensitive with this subject. Let me just say this much - many in
my family died due to the Nazis...<br>
</p>
<p>Thus, while what the person said does not qualify as anything
objectionable, the body language while speaking is 100%
unmistakable. It’s the Roman greeting, which later became the
Mussolini and Nazi salute, and he did it twice on the world
stage. To be clear and summarize: It was not something "like" a
Nazi salute, no - it was exactly that, twice, and on the world
stage! <br>
</p>
<p>Actions must lead to consequences. There is zero doubt about
what he did and about what he intentionally displayed on the
world stage. The guy is not some idiot who does not know what he
does. This was no harmless fun talk between friends in a local
bar. There can be absolutely no foolish excuses. There must be
no tolerance for this. Neo-Nazis have already celebrated what
happened!</p>
<p>In Germany, you would be prosecuted and could go to jail for
such actions—and rightfully so. As Germans, we learned the hard
way (at least my ancestors did) when we lost our country. My
German history teachers in school taught me, <em>“You cannot
debate with a Nazi.”</em> At that point, it is already too
late.</p>
<p>Such things must be stopped at the very beginning, before it is
too late. This cannot be tolerated. Full stop.</p>
<p>I fully support a decision to remove anything related to the
person in question or companies he is involved with from being
associated with any OSGeo content everywhere. I also support
that the process of such a decision being transparent and
orderly, though.</p>
<p>Best regards<br>
Karsten Vennemann<br>
<br>
<br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CADTfY6KMGGmRL2PTOe=-86_AUd72FB_1tdJQRUBO99agtY-erA@mail.gmail.com">
<div>
<div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">El El mar, 21 ene 2025 a
la(s) 6:59 p. m., Even Rouault via Discuss <<a
href="mailto:discuss@lists.osgeo.org"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">discuss@lists.osgeo.org</a>>
escribió:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><br>
Le 21/01/2025 à 22:24, Jody Garnett a écrit :<br>
> Yeah updating the website socials has a plan drawn
up, but need <br>
> volunteers or budget.<br>
<br>
Jody, we are not going to find excuses by saying that
removing the bird <br>
icon from <a href="http://www.osgeo.org" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.osgeo.org</a>
in WP requires a budget, right... I'm currently <br>
logged in in wordpress trying to find where it is. I
probably don't have <br>
the appropriate rights to do so, but I'd assume this
should be a 30 <br>
second task for someone slightly knowledgeable...<br>
<br>
Even<br>
<br>
-- <br>
<a href="http://www.spatialys.com" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://www.spatialys.com</a><br>
My software is free, but my time generally not.<br>
<br>
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</pre>
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<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
<p
style="font-weight: normal; line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm"> <font
size="2" style="font-size: 11pt"><font color="#000080"><font
face="Verdana, serif">Karsten Vennemann</font></font></font></p>
<p style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm"><font
color="#000080"><font face="Verdana, serif"><font size="2"
style="font-size: 10pt"><b>Terra GIS LTD </b></font></font></font><font
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style="font-size: 9pt">2119 Boyer Ave E <br>
Seattle, WA 98112<br>
Tel ++1 206 905 1711<br>
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<p
style="font-weight: normal; line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm">
<font size="2" style="font-size: 11pt"><font color="#000080"><font
face="Verdana, serif">Karsten
Vennemann</font></font></font></p>
<p style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm"><font
color="#000080"><font face="Verdana, serif"><font size="2"
style="font-size: 10pt"><b>Terra
GIS LTD </b></font></font></font><font color="#000080"><font
face="Verdana, serif"><font size="2" style="font-size: 10pt"><br>
</font></font></font><font color="#000080"><font
face="Verdana, serif"><font size="2" style="font-size: 9pt">2119
Boyer Ave E <br>
Seattle, WA 98112<br>
Tel ++1 206 905
1711<br>
</font></font></font><font color="#000080"><u><a
href="http://www.terragis.net/"><font color="#000080"><font
face="Verdana, serif"><font size="2"
style="font-size: 9pt">www.terragis.net</font></font></font></a></u></font></p>
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