[Europe] Urgent: Status of [OSGeo Europe]
Dirk Frigne
dirk at osgeo.org
Thu Sep 9 02:44:26 PDT 2021
Hi Angelos,
The control of the NGO is by the elected board members. As of today,
current OSGeo and past OSGeo board members are elected already.
As we need to prepare for new elections, other OSGeo board members can
stand up and volunteer for a board mandate.
As I execute the role of secretary in practice, I have no problem with
taking care of the formalities.
@Till
To answer the question of Till:
The problem with a non-formal group is that you can't get a bank account
anymore. The only option is a bank account on your own name, and use
that for OSGeo, but this is not what we want.
The biggest problem at this moment is that the NGO has no income since
the last 2 years, and that there are (minimal) costs involved. Even
without activitiy.
Since feb this year, the bank accounts are not free of charge anymore
(for organisations). Not sure if there is still a bank that is free of
charge for organisations.
Also the fact that we are eligible to recover taxes gives us the
obligation to register every quarter the revenue, even if it is zero.
We could drop this feature, but I don't think this is smart if we want
to keep an NGO.
@Maria:
Thanks for your response,
Dirk
On 9/09/2021 10:17, Angelos Tzotsos wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I think there is value in keeping the NGO:
> I recently talked with ESA (there is a possibility for a sponsorship)
> and it can only be done through an EU legal entity. I assume, this would
> also be needed in other cases.
>
> How about we pass the control of the NGO directly to the board and try
> to find a EU based volunteer as a secretary?
>
> Best,
> Angelos
>
>
>
> On 9/9/21 11:03 AM, Till Adams wrote:
>> Maria,
>>
>> many thanks for your repl - at least one ;-)
>>
>> I totally agree with you and I see the same lack of time/energy on my side.
>>
>> Maybe the first step nevertheless should be transforming the NGO "OSGeo
>> Europe" to another format, that does not cost us anything?
>>
>> This gives us time for a chance to re-start and maybe also time to find
>> some active people?
>>
>> Till
>>
>>
>> Am 09.09.21 um 09:54 schrieb María Arias de Reyna:
>>> Hi Till,
>>>
>>> Thanks for the effort.
>>>
>>> Personally I don't have the bandwidth to invest relevant time here. I
>>> still thinks this is important, that we should be closer to the
>>> European Commission to push FOSS enforcement laws, that we should
>>> improve the business network among European companies and, of course,
>>> that we should be more active in general.
>>>
>>> But as much as it saddens me, unless we inject here "fresh blood" or
>>> some company sees the benefit of investing their effort (for the
>>> political and business?), I doubt we will get many volunteers.
>>> Specially during the pandemic. We are all tired and overworked with
>>> personal things.
>>>
>>> Maybe we should try to contact universities to get younger volunteers
>>> who are looking for a place to help and are not already busy with
>>> other duties?
>>>
>>> Cheers!
>>> María.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 9, 2021 at 9:41 AM Till Adams <till.adams at fossgis.de
>>> <mailto:till.adams at fossgis.de>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear Europe list and especially hello Dirk,
>>>
>>> I fear that the silence after my email (see below) is
>>> self-explaining. I
>>> think we should execute the liquidation of OSgeo Europe (or
>>> transfer it
>>> to another status, e.g. a loose group of willing people without any
>>> organisational status).
>>>
>>> Regards, Till
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 01.09.21 um 15:39 schrieb Till Adams:
>>> > Dear Dirk and @OSGeo Europe again,
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > I now had the time to look little deeper into what Dirk wrote.
>>> Sorry for
>>> > bothering you again, but I think we are in a situation, where
>>> decisions
>>> > need to be taken:
>>> >
>>> > First of all, regarding our presentation at OSGeo's AM: I would say,
>>> > that we have nothing really interesting (and new) to present to the
>>> > community, so I would propose to skip the part of OSgeo-Europe and
>>> > instead of that, take a look on ourselves:
>>> >
>>> > If you browse to the end of Dirks email (see below), he claerly
>>> says,
>>> > what needs to be decided:
>>> >
>>> > Option a: Restart of OSgeo Europe with "fresh" people, new ideas
>>> and new
>>> > power
>>> >
>>> > Option b: give up and execute liquidation
>>> >
>>> > I totally agree with Dirk, that "Opition b" is the least option
>>> we all
>>> > want. But - as you all should know - it is impossible to power a
>>> > community without people. Don't understand me wrong: This is not
>>> > fingerpointing to anybody !! -- I know that I did not give much
>>> input to
>>> > OSGeo Europe in the past two years - to say it carefully ;-).
>>> >
>>> > The question is:
>>> > Is there still a community around OSGeo Europe? Are there
>>> people, that
>>> > have power, ideas and time for a re-start?
>>> >
>>> > What about you?
>>> > Are you/we willing to dare a re-start of OSGeo-Europe?
>>> > Where are the "fresh" people with new ideas and a lot of power??
>>> >
>>> > Maybe FOSS4G BA gives a good opportunity for a community meeting?
>>> >
>>> > Please comment.
>>> >
>>> > Till
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Am 31.08.21 um 16:46 schrieb Till Adams:
>>> >> Dear Dirk,
>>> >>
>>> >> thanks for the input - but: No, no one is going physically to
>>> BA, me
>>> >> neither. FOSS4G BA is an onlien conference ;-)
>>> >>
>>> >> All I could do is put your thoughtsi nto slides, record it and
>>> send it
>>> >> to Vicky, so that she can add it to the AM video.
>>> >>
>>> >> I will ask her for some more time and will do.
>>> >>
>>> >> Till
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Am 29.08.21 um 12:08 schrieb Dirk Frigne:
>>> >>> Hi Till,
>>> >>>
>>> >>> It took me a bit longer that I wanted. I hope it was worth the
>>> waiting...
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Dear list,
>>> >>>
>>> >>> As a preparation for the AGM of Friday 01 October 11:00 AM AST or
>>> >>> 16:00 CET, I prepared some input.
>>> >>> Till will go physically to Buenos Aires. I will not make it
>>> but I'll
>>> >>> try to connect online if possible.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> It would be good if Till could present the Local European
>>> Chapter on
>>> >>> stage during the AGM.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> It would also be good if there is a specific meeting about the
>>> future
>>> >>> of OSGeo Local Chapter, as we hit some damage during the last
>>> 2 years.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> For those new to the content, a short recap:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> *History* (See also:
>>> >>>https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Local_Chapter_EU_History
>>> <https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Local_Chapter_EU_History> + update)
>>> >>> (please feel free to update where I missed some activities or
>>> actions)
>>> >>>
>>> >>> the first ideas for OSGeo Europe Chapter were launched in 2014.
>>> >>> Actually the first idea’s started in 2013 on the FOSS4G CEE
>>> Conference
>>> >>> in Bucharest.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> In 2015 there was some need to promote open standards for ICT
>>> >>> procurement in Europe.
>>> >>> Proposal to start an initiative on the Foss4G conference in
>>> Bonn 2016.
>>> >>> Bylaws discussed and prepared during 2016 / 2017.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> *Birth of the organisation*
>>> >>> Bylaws signed 20 July 2021 during the FOSS4G conference in Paris.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> OSGeo was founded with a legal status as a non-profit organisation
>>> >>> based on Belgium law. We have 2 bankaccounts and a legal
>>> status with
>>> >>> rights and obligations.
>>> >>> One of the interesting rights is that we don’t have to pay
>>> value added
>>> >>> tax (VAT) when buying goods, but when we sell services we need to
>>> >>> apply for VAT.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> 2017 - 2018 was also the year I tried to find out how to
>>> behave as a ngo.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Some contacts where initiated with UN Committee, discussions
>>> amongst
>>> >>> members how to work on a common tender, investigating what are the
>>> >>> obligations to report for the Belgian authorities in a way we
>>> could
>>> >>> recuperate the VAT.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> November 2017: preparation for first board meeting OSGeo Europe
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Board meeting 15 December 2017: no of the board members attended
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Jan- February 2018:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Further administrative burden to check all the signatures and
>>> ID’s of
>>> >>> the board members,
>>> >>> the publication of bylaws of the organisation in the Belgian
>>> >>> registers. Opening the bank accounts.
>>> >>> (Since the terroristic attacks in Belgium, these procedures became
>>> >>> more difficult than before).
>>> >>> This took more time as expected.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> March 2018: Meeting in Brussels about the Copernicus program .
>>> Goal:
>>> >>> promote OSGeo and promote Copernicus @OSGeo.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Jul 2018: FOSS4G Conference Guimrães:
>>> >>> Presentation of OSGeo EU initiative to promote OSGeo software and
>>> >>> projects on non FOSS events.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Aug 2018: organisation of first initiative in collaboration with 5
>>> >>> OSGeo projects.
>>> >>> OSGeo Europe did the coordination of the INSPIRE 2018 event in
>>> Antwerp
>>> >>> and in return we could promote OSGeo on that event.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> 26 – 30 Aug: FOSS4G Bucharest: short status update by Joachim
>>> >>>
>>> >>> 19 September 2018 there was a first event with OSGeo on the
>>> INSPIRE
>>> >>> conference in Antwerp with a presentation about the eco-system of
>>> >>> OSGeo. OSGeo had one of the big boots during the conference.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> The goal was to promote OSGeo and the OSGeo projects, the
>>> companies
>>> >>> behind them and to create a European contact point for
>>> information to
>>> >>> the non FOSS world.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> With 5 paying contributors we had a budget of 10.000 EUR to
>>> organise
>>> >>> the event and the boot. By using the scale advantage, it was of
>>> >>> intrest to the participants, OSGeo Europe could present itself
>>> as host
>>> >>> and we had a small benefit of approx 1000 Eur to pay for the
>>> >>> administrative overhead (the accountant responsible for the
>>> official
>>> >>> registrations and publications).
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Plans for organising more events in Germany, France and other
>>> >>> countries did not materialize.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> But then all activities on my part were paused due to ...
>>> >>>
>>> >>> *(Some personal notes)*
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Nov 2018 - Nov 2019: black out for me (literally …)
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Dec 2019 – Feb 2020: personally: try to find the energy to
>>> reboot the
>>> >>> Local Chapter but I still missed the energy to do so.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> And then there was Covid…
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Engagement in a community (like OSGeo) takes a lot of energy.
>>> >>> Luckily this energy is fuelled by attending the activities,
>>> >>> participating conferences, meeting other people and work together
>>> >>> promoting FOSS and stimulating the FOSS industry.
>>> >>> When this falls away, like it was in times of Covid this is
>>> even more
>>> >>> challenging (see the presentation
>>> >>>https://callforpapers.2021.foss4g.org/foss4g2021/talk/3MNBBB/
>>> <https://callforpapers.2021.foss4g.org/foss4g2021/talk/3MNBBB/>).
>>> >>> For me personally, it was very hard to find the energy back.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Personally I need a mission I want to work on.
>>> >>> The world is changing very fast, so the reasons I started
>>> engaging for
>>> >>> FOSS now more than 15 years ago, changed over time.
>>> >>> One of the strengths of FOSS is that it starts from
>>> *‘givving’*. But
>>> >>> to be able to *‘give’* you need others who receive and who are
>>> glad
>>> >>> with the *‘gift’*. I need to find the right focus where my
>>> >>> contribution helps our community forward, preferably with
>>> other people.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> It is this exercise we should do again.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> *Status of the ngo OSGeo Europe vzw*
>>> >>> To fulfil all the obligations the Belgian law describes, I asked a
>>> >>> account to help me with the legal stuff.
>>> >>> This costs some money.
>>> >>> Almost every year, laws change in Belgium (and I think also in
>>> >>> Europe), this also has impact on ngo’s.
>>> >>> The reporting becomes more demanding. f.i. a UBO-register is a new
>>> >>> obligation.
>>> (https://financien.belgium.be/nl/E-services/Ubo-register
>>> <https://financien.belgium.be/nl/E-services/Ubo-register>).
>>> >>> As we have an international board, this is a bit more complex than
>>> >>> with only Belgian id’s.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Also, as intrest rates are below zero, banks that previously
>>> provided
>>> >>> free services now also charge a monthly fee. This also takes money
>>> >>> from our accounts.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> June 30, 2021 we closed our accounts with a claim on the VAT tax
>>> >>> department of dept to the accountant of 314,30 EURO. This is the
>>> >>> amount of money we get back from government because we aply to
>>> the VAT
>>> >>> rules.
>>> >>> But for the work done by the accountant the last 3 years, we
>>> have an
>>> >>> unpaid dept of 693,55 EURO. Every quarter this grows a bit.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> The status on the accounts is (OSGeo EU : 38,43 EUR, GRASS:
>>> 1389,57
>>> >>> EURO).
>>> >>>
>>> >>> The income of OSGeo Europe is zero.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Without organising events that produce the necessary income
>>> and VAT
>>> >>> taxes that we can recuperate, this has no sense.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> So it is no rocket science that we only have 2 options (imho):
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Option a:
>>> >>> Find the money to pay for the current depts.
>>> >>> Find a way to get the minimal income to pay for the necessary
>>> Yearly
>>> >>> costs (+/- 1000 Euro / Year)
>>> >>> Organise elections for a new board
>>> >>> Define/update/reactivate the mission and activities OSGeo
>>> Europe wants
>>> >>> to do
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Option b:
>>> >>> Execute the liquidation of the ngo
>>> >>>
>>> >>> option b would be a real shame, since we've devoted a lot of
>>> energy
>>> >>> and community discussions to building this organization.
>>> >>> If there is no other option, then this is unfortunately the
>>> only way
>>> >>> to go.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> If option a is chosen, I want to organize the elections and
>>> help find
>>> >>> the new mission. I am also available to engage myself if I can
>>> >>> contribute to the mission and get the necessary energy from it.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> In case it becomes option b, I will take steps in October to
>>> organize
>>> >>> the liquidation.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Any comments are welcome,
>>> >>> Thanks in advance for your contribution.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Dirk
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On 24/08/2021 09:07, Till Adams wrote:
>>> >>>> Hi Dirk,
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> thanks for the "food" - that's a good idea. No, I am not going to
>>> >>>> Finland, it's tha AM on FOSS4G Buenos Aires ;-)
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Till
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Am 19.08.21 um 14:40 schrieb Dirk Frigne:
>>> >>>>> Hi Till,
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> I will give you some food for tought, later today.
>>> >>>>> Good to hear you go to Finland!
>>> >>>>> I've not yet decided.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Dirk
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> On 19/08/2021 08:10,adams at osgeo.org
>>> <mailto:adams at osgeo.org> wrote:
>>> >>>>>> Dear European chapter!
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> I know there was not much activity, but at least we planned
>>> (and
>>> >>>>>> postproned) a FOSS4G Europe! Did any further activities
>>> under the
>>> >>>>>> European chapter umbrella take place and is someone willing to
>>> >>>>>> present them.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> In case no one wants to, I can also present them, as I will
>>> join
>>> >>>>>> the AM
>>> >>>>>> anyway - but I need some "food" for this ;-9
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Regards, Till
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Am 18.08.21 um 18:13 schrieb Astrid Emde (OSGeo Secretary):
>>> >>>>>>> Hello Europe Local Chapter,
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> we invite you and your team to present the local chapter
>>> at the OSGeo
>>> >>>>>>> AGM 2021.
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> This year we will publish the OSGeo AGM video in advance
>>> of FOSS4G
>>> >>>>>>> [1].
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> You find all important information about the AGM at [5].
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> It would be great if someone could volunteer to present
>>> the status at
>>> >>>>>>> the AGM. Please send me an email and I will provide an
>>> upload link
>>> >>>>>>> for
>>> >>>>>>> the video.
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> Timeline
>>> >>>>>>> -----------------------
>>> >>>>>>> - 2021-08-30: upload your video and update the AGM slides [2]
>>> >>>>>>> - 2021-09-10: AGM 2021 complete video will be published
>>> >>>>>>> - 2021-10-01: 11h Argentinian Time Zone (14:00 UTC) Join
>>> the OSGeo
>>> >>>>>>> AGM
>>> >>>>>>> 2021 meeting at FOSS4G [3] [4]
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> If you have questions or problems with the upload of your
>>> video
>>> >>>>>>> please
>>> >>>>>>> let us know secretary (at) osgeo (dot) org.
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> Stay safe,
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> Astrid Emde
>>> >>>>>>> OSGeo Secretary
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> [1]
>>> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDvJEf8hXbyeVqaYaS8sLvw
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDvJEf8hXbyeVqaYaS8sLvw>
>>> >>>>>>> [2]
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1brbBb7-sKRI6U4dZ7LKnBT_-NnWzyS2TaZqVXzy8RDo/edit#slide=id.p4
>>> <https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1brbBb7-sKRI6U4dZ7LKnBT_-NnWzyS2TaZqVXzy8RDo/edit#slide=id.p4>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> [3]
>>> https://callforpapers.2021.foss4g.org/foss4g2021/talk/WDEW3P/
>>> <https://callforpapers.2021.foss4g.org/foss4g2021/talk/WDEW3P/>
>>> >>>>>>> [4]
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingdetails.html?year=2021&month=10&day=1&hour=14&min=0&sec=0&p1=51&p2=26&p3=49&p4=155&p5=217&p6=312&p7=250&p8=71&p9=248&p10=240
>>> <https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingdetails.html?year=2021&month=10&day=1&hour=14&min=0&sec=0&p1=51&p2=26&p3=49&p4=155&p5=217&p6=312&p7=250&p8=71&p9=248&p10=240>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> [5]
>>> https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Annual_General_Meeting_2021
>>> <https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Annual_General_Meeting_2021>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>>>>> Europe mailing list
>>> >>>>>>Europe at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:Europe at lists.osgeo.org>
>>> >>>>>>https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/europe
>>> <https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/europe>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>>> Europe mailing list
>>> >>>>Europe at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:Europe at lists.osgeo.org>
>>> >>>>https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/europe
>>> <https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/europe>
>>> >>>>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> Europe mailing list
>>> >>Europe at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:Europe at lists.osgeo.org>
>>> >>https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/europe
>>> <https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/europe>
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Europe mailing list
>>> >Europe at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:Europe at lists.osgeo.org>
>>> >https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/europe
>>> <https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/europe>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Europe mailing list
>>> Europe at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:Europe at lists.osgeo.org>
>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/europe
>>> <https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/europe>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Europe mailing list
>> Europe at lists.osgeo.org
>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/europe
>
>
> --
> Angelos Tzotsos, PhD
> President
> Open Source Geospatial Foundation
> http://users.ntua.gr/tzotsos
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Europe mailing list
> Europe at lists.osgeo.org
> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/europe
>
--
Dirk Frigne
President OSGeo Europe
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BE47 9731 8951 3580
OSGeo Europe VZW BE 0689915666
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