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<p>Maria,</p>
<p>many thanks for your repl - at least one ;-)</p>
<p>I totally agree with you and I see the same lack of time/energy
on my side. <br>
</p>
<p>Maybe the first step nevertheless should be transforming the NGO
"OSGeo Europe" to another format, that does not cost us anything?</p>
<p>This gives us time for a chance to re-start and maybe also time
to find some active people?</p>
<p>Till<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 09.09.21 um 09:54 schrieb María
Arias de Reyna:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAERgKeA5S_agcx3YKqgUUoQz20LFPg8x7jBQHWXWS6m_TS0ejA@mail.gmail.com">
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<div dir="ltr">
<div>Hi Till,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks for the effort.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Personally I don't have the bandwidth to invest relevant
time here. I still thinks this is important, that we should be
closer to the European Commission to push FOSS enforcement
laws, that we should improve the business network among
European companies and, of course, that we should be more
active in general.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>But as much as it saddens me, unless we inject here "fresh
blood" or some company sees the benefit of investing their
effort (for the political and business?), I doubt we will get
many volunteers. Specially during the pandemic. We are all
tired and overworked with personal things.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Maybe we should try to contact universities to get younger
volunteers who are looking for a place to help and are not
already busy with other duties?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cheers!</div>
<div>María.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Sep 9, 2021 at 9:41
AM Till Adams <<a href="mailto:till.adams@fossgis.de"
moz-do-not-send="true">till.adams@fossgis.de</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Dear Europe list and
especially hello Dirk,<br>
<br>
I fear that the silence after my email (see below) is
self-explaining. I<br>
think we should execute the liquidation of OSgeo Europe (or
transfer it<br>
to another status, e.g. a loose group of willing people
without any<br>
organisational status).<br>
<br>
Regards, Till<br>
<br>
<br>
Am 01.09.21 um 15:39 schrieb Till Adams:<br>
> Dear Dirk and @OSGeo Europe again,<br>
><br>
><br>
> I now had the time to look little deeper into what Dirk
wrote. Sorry for<br>
> bothering you again, but I think we are in a situation,
where decisions<br>
> need to be taken:<br>
><br>
> First of all, regarding our presentation at OSGeo's AM:
I would say,<br>
> that we have nothing really interesting (and new) to
present to the<br>
> community, so I would propose to skip the part of
OSgeo-Europe and<br>
> instead of that, take a look on ourselves:<br>
><br>
> If you browse to the end of Dirks email (see below), he
claerly says,<br>
> what needs to be decided:<br>
><br>
> Option a: Restart of OSgeo Europe with "fresh" people,
new ideas and new<br>
> power<br>
><br>
> Option b: give up and execute liquidation<br>
><br>
> I totally agree with Dirk, that "Opition b" is the
least option we all<br>
> want. But - as you all should know - it is impossible
to power a<br>
> community without people. Don't understand me wrong:
This is not<br>
> fingerpointing to anybody !! -- I know that I did not
give much input to<br>
> OSGeo Europe in the past two years - to say it
carefully ;-).<br>
><br>
> The question is:<br>
> Is there still a community around OSGeo Europe? Are
there people, that<br>
> have power, ideas and time for a re-start?<br>
><br>
> What about you?<br>
> Are you/we willing to dare a re-start of OSGeo-Europe?<br>
> Where are the "fresh" people with new ideas and a lot
of power??<br>
><br>
> Maybe FOSS4G BA gives a good opportunity for a
community meeting?<br>
><br>
> Please comment.<br>
><br>
> Till<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Am 31.08.21 um 16:46 schrieb Till Adams:<br>
>> Dear Dirk,<br>
>><br>
>> thanks for the input - but: No, no one is going
physically to BA, me<br>
>> neither. FOSS4G BA is an onlien conference ;-)<br>
>><br>
>> All I could do is put your thoughtsi nto slides,
record it and send it<br>
>> to Vicky, so that she can add it to the AM video.<br>
>><br>
>> I will ask her for some more time and will do.<br>
>><br>
>> Till<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Am 29.08.21 um 12:08 schrieb Dirk Frigne:<br>
>>> Hi Till,<br>
>>><br>
>>> It took me a bit longer that I wanted. I hope
it was worth the waiting...<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> Dear list,<br>
>>><br>
>>> As a preparation for the AGM of Friday 01
October 11:00 AM AST or<br>
>>> 16:00 CET, I prepared some input.<br>
>>> Till will go physically to Buenos Aires. I
will not make it but I'll<br>
>>> try to connect online if possible.<br>
>>><br>
>>> It would be good if Till could present the
Local European Chapter on<br>
>>> stage during the AGM.<br>
>>><br>
>>> It would also be good if there is a specific
meeting about the future<br>
>>> of OSGeo Local Chapter, as we hit some damage
during the last 2 years.<br>
>>><br>
>>> For those new to the content, a short recap:<br>
>>><br>
>>> *History* (See also:<br>
>>> <a
href="https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Local_Chapter_EU_History"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Local_Chapter_EU_History</a>
+ update)<br>
>>> (please feel free to update where I missed some
activities or actions)<br>
>>><br>
>>> the first ideas for OSGeo Europe Chapter were
launched in 2014.<br>
>>> Actually the first idea’s started in 2013 on
the FOSS4G CEE Conference<br>
>>> in Bucharest.<br>
>>><br>
>>> In 2015 there was some need to promote open
standards for ICT<br>
>>> procurement in Europe.<br>
>>> Proposal to start an initiative on the Foss4G
conference in Bonn 2016.<br>
>>> Bylaws discussed and prepared during 2016 /
2017.<br>
>>><br>
>>> *Birth of the organisation*<br>
>>> Bylaws signed 20 July 2021 during the FOSS4G
conference in Paris.<br>
>>><br>
>>> OSGeo was founded with a legal status as a
non-profit organisation<br>
>>> based on Belgium law. We have 2 bankaccounts
and a legal status with<br>
>>> rights and obligations.<br>
>>> One of the interesting rights is that we don’t
have to pay value added<br>
>>> tax (VAT) when buying goods, but when we sell
services we need to<br>
>>> apply for VAT.<br>
>>><br>
>>> 2017 - 2018 was also the year I tried to find
out how to behave as a ngo.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Some contacts where initiated with UN
Committee, discussions amongst<br>
>>> members how to work on a common tender,
investigating what are the<br>
>>> obligations to report for the Belgian
authorities in a way we could<br>
>>> recuperate the VAT.<br>
>>><br>
>>> November 2017: preparation for first board
meeting OSGeo Europe<br>
>>><br>
>>> Board meeting 15 December 2017: no of the board
members attended<br>
>>><br>
>>> Jan- February 2018:<br>
>>><br>
>>> Further administrative burden to check all the
signatures and ID’s of<br>
>>> the board members,<br>
>>> the publication of bylaws of the organisation
in the Belgian<br>
>>> registers. Opening the bank accounts.<br>
>>> (Since the terroristic attacks in Belgium,
these procedures became<br>
>>> more difficult than before).<br>
>>> This took more time as expected.<br>
>>><br>
>>> March 2018: Meeting in Brussels about the
Copernicus program . Goal:<br>
>>> promote OSGeo and promote Copernicus @OSGeo.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Jul 2018: FOSS4G Conference Guimrães:<br>
>>> Presentation of OSGeo EU initiative to promote
OSGeo software and<br>
>>> projects on non FOSS events.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Aug 2018: organisation of first initiative in
collaboration with 5<br>
>>> OSGeo projects.<br>
>>> OSGeo Europe did the coordination of the
INSPIRE 2018 event in Antwerp<br>
>>> and in return we could promote OSGeo on that
event.<br>
>>><br>
>>> 26 – 30 Aug: FOSS4G Bucharest: short status
update by Joachim<br>
>>><br>
>>> 19 September 2018 there was a first event
with OSGeo on the INSPIRE<br>
>>> conference in Antwerp with a presentation about
the eco-system of<br>
>>> OSGeo. OSGeo had one of the big boots during
the conference.<br>
>>><br>
>>> The goal was to promote OSGeo and the OSGeo
projects, the companies<br>
>>> behind them and to create a European contact
point for information to<br>
>>> the non FOSS world.<br>
>>><br>
>>> With 5 paying contributors we had a budget of
10.000 EUR to organise<br>
>>> the event and the boot. By using the scale
advantage, it was of<br>
>>> intrest to the participants, OSGeo Europe could
present itself as host<br>
>>> and we had a small benefit of approx 1000 Eur
to pay for the<br>
>>> administrative overhead (the accountant
responsible for the official<br>
>>> registrations and publications). <br>
>>><br>
>>> Plans for organising more events in Germany,
France and other<br>
>>> countries did not materialize.<br>
>>><br>
>>> But then all activities on my part were paused
due to ...<br>
>>><br>
>>> *(Some personal notes)*<br>
>>><br>
>>> Nov 2018 - Nov 2019: black out for me
(literally …)<br>
>>><br>
>>> Dec 2019 – Feb 2020: personally: try to find
the energy to reboot the<br>
>>> Local Chapter but I still missed the energy to
do so.<br>
>>><br>
>>> And then there was Covid…<br>
>>><br>
>>> Engagement in a community (like OSGeo) takes a
lot of energy.<br>
>>> Luckily this energy is fuelled by attending the
activities,<br>
>>> participating conferences, meeting other people
and work together<br>
>>> promoting FOSS and stimulating the FOSS
industry.<br>
>>> When this falls away, like it was in times of
Covid this is even more<br>
>>> challenging (see the presentation<br>
>>> <a
href="https://callforpapers.2021.foss4g.org/foss4g2021/talk/3MNBBB/"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://callforpapers.2021.foss4g.org/foss4g2021/talk/3MNBBB/</a>).<br>
>>> For me personally, it was very hard to find the
energy back.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Personally I need a mission I want to work on.<br>
>>> The world is changing very fast, so the reasons
I started engaging for<br>
>>> FOSS now more than 15 years ago, changed over
time.<br>
>>> One of the strengths of FOSS is that it starts
from *‘givving’*. But<br>
>>> to be able to *‘give’* you need others who
receive and who are glad<br>
>>> with the *‘gift’*. I need to find the right
focus where my<br>
>>> contribution helps our community forward,
preferably with other people.<br>
>>><br>
>>> It is this exercise we should do again.<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> *Status of the ngo OSGeo Europe vzw*<br>
>>> To fulfil all the obligations the Belgian law
describes, I asked a<br>
>>> account to help me with the legal stuff.<br>
>>> This costs some money.<br>
>>> Almost every year, laws change in Belgium (and
I think also in<br>
>>> Europe), this also has impact on ngo’s.<br>
>>> The reporting becomes more demanding. f.i. a
UBO-register is a new<br>
>>> obligation. (<a
href="https://financien.belgium.be/nl/E-services/Ubo-register"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://financien.belgium.be/nl/E-services/Ubo-register</a>).<br>
>>> As we have an international board, this is a
bit more complex than<br>
>>> with only Belgian id’s.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Also, as intrest rates are below zero, banks
that previously provided<br>
>>> free services now also charge a monthly fee.
This also takes money<br>
>>> from our accounts.<br>
>>><br>
>>> June 30, 2021 we closed our accounts with a
claim on the VAT tax<br>
>>> department of dept to the accountant of 314,30
EURO. This is the<br>
>>> amount of money we get back from government
because we aply to the VAT<br>
>>> rules.<br>
>>> But for the work done by the accountant the
last 3 years, we have an<br>
>>> unpaid dept of 693,55 EURO. Every quarter this
grows a bit.<br>
>>><br>
>>> The status on the accounts is (OSGeo EU : 38,43
EUR, GRASS: 1389,57<br>
>>> EURO).<br>
>>><br>
>>> The income of OSGeo Europe is zero.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Without organising events that produce the
necessary income and VAT<br>
>>> taxes that we can recuperate, this has no
sense.<br>
>>><br>
>>> So it is no rocket science that we only have 2
options (imho):<br>
>>><br>
>>> Option a:<br>
>>> Find the money to pay for the current depts.<br>
>>> Find a way to get the minimal income to pay for
the necessary Yearly<br>
>>> costs (+/- 1000 Euro / Year)<br>
>>> Organise elections for a new board<br>
>>> Define/update/reactivate the mission and
activities OSGeo Europe wants<br>
>>> to do<br>
>>><br>
>>> Option b:<br>
>>> Execute the liquidation of the ngo<br>
>>><br>
>>> option b would be a real shame, since we've
devoted a lot of energy<br>
>>> and community discussions to building this
organization.<br>
>>> If there is no other option, then this is
unfortunately the only way<br>
>>> to go.<br>
>>><br>
>>> If option a is chosen, I want to organize the
elections and help find<br>
>>> the new mission. I am also available to engage
myself if I can<br>
>>> contribute to the mission and get the necessary
energy from it.<br>
>>><br>
>>> In case it becomes option b, I will take steps
in October to organize<br>
>>> the liquidation.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Any comments are welcome,<br>
>>> Thanks in advance for your contribution.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Dirk<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> On 24/08/2021 09:07, Till Adams wrote:<br>
>>>> Hi Dirk,<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> thanks for the "food" - that's a good idea.
No, I am not going to<br>
>>>> Finland, it's tha AM on FOSS4G Buenos Aires
;-)<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Till<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Am 19.08.21 um 14:40 schrieb Dirk Frigne:<br>
>>>>> Hi Till,<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> I will give you some food for tought,
later today.<br>
>>>>> Good to hear you go to Finland!<br>
>>>>> I've not yet decided.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Dirk<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> On 19/08/2021 08:10, <a
href="mailto:adams@osgeo.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">adams@osgeo.org</a> wrote:<br>
>>>>>> Dear European chapter!<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> I know there was not much activity,
but at least we planned (and<br>
>>>>>> postproned) a FOSS4G Europe! Did
any further activities under the<br>
>>>>>> European chapter umbrella take
place and is someone willing to<br>
>>>>>> present them.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> In case no one wants to, I can also
present them, as I will join<br>
>>>>>> the AM<br>
>>>>>> anyway - but I need some "food" for
this ;-9<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> Regards, Till<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> Am 18.08.21 um 18:13 schrieb Astrid
Emde (OSGeo Secretary):<br>
>>>>>>> Hello Europe Local Chapter,<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> we invite you and your team to
present the local chapter at the OSGeo<br>
>>>>>>> AGM 2021.<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> This year we will publish the
OSGeo AGM video in advance of FOSS4G<br>
>>>>>>> [1].<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> You find all important
information about the AGM at [5].<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> It would be great if someone
could volunteer to present the status at<br>
>>>>>>> the AGM. Please send me an
email and I will provide an upload link<br>
>>>>>>> for<br>
>>>>>>> the video.<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> Timeline<br>
>>>>>>> -----------------------<br>
>>>>>>> - 2021-08-30: upload your video
and update the AGM slides [2]<br>
>>>>>>> - 2021-09-10: AGM 2021 complete
video will be published<br>
>>>>>>> - 2021-10-01: 11h Argentinian
Time Zone (14:00 UTC) Join the OSGeo<br>
>>>>>>> AGM<br>
>>>>>>> 2021 meeting at FOSS4G [3] [4]<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> If you have questions or
problems with the upload of your video<br>
>>>>>>> please<br>
>>>>>>> let us know secretary (at)
osgeo (dot) org.<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> Stay safe,<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> Astrid Emde<br>
>>>>>>> OSGeo Secretary<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> [1] <a
href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDvJEf8hXbyeVqaYaS8sLvw"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDvJEf8hXbyeVqaYaS8sLvw</a><br>
>>>>>>> [2]<br>
>>>>>>> <a
href="https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1brbBb7-sKRI6U4dZ7LKnBT_-NnWzyS2TaZqVXzy8RDo/edit#slide=id.p4"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1brbBb7-sKRI6U4dZ7LKnBT_-NnWzyS2TaZqVXzy8RDo/edit#slide=id.p4</a><br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> [3] <a
href="https://callforpapers.2021.foss4g.org/foss4g2021/talk/WDEW3P/"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://callforpapers.2021.foss4g.org/foss4g2021/talk/WDEW3P/</a><br>
>>>>>>> [4]<br>
>>>>>>> <a
href="https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingdetails.html?year=2021&month=10&day=1&hour=14&min=0&sec=0&p1=51&p2=26&p3=49&p4=155&p5=217&p6=312&p7=250&p8=71&p9=248&p10=240"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingdetails.html?year=2021&month=10&day=1&hour=14&min=0&sec=0&p1=51&p2=26&p3=49&p4=155&p5=217&p6=312&p7=250&p8=71&p9=248&p10=240</a><br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> [5] <a
href="https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Annual_General_Meeting_2021"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Annual_General_Meeting_2021</a><br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>
_______________________________________________<br>
>>>>>> Europe mailing list<br>
>>>>>> <a
href="mailto:Europe@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">Europe@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
>>>>>> <a
href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/europe"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/europe</a><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>
_______________________________________________<br>
>>>> Europe mailing list<br>
>>>> <a href="mailto:Europe@lists.osgeo.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Europe@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
>>>> <a
href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/europe"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/europe</a><br>
>>>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Europe mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Europe@lists.osgeo.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Europe@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
>> <a
href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/europe"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/europe</a><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Europe mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Europe@lists.osgeo.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Europe@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
> <a
href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/europe"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/europe</a><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Europe mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Europe@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">Europe@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/europe"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/europe</a><br>
</blockquote>
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</blockquote>
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