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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Jason, it is not a general desire, the current state of things
is not new and is really painful. Yet another example: SqlServer 2008 requires
geodetic polygons in strict CCW orientation. On the other hand, SHP require CW
orientation. We also need to address it –now-- for everybody’s
benefit. Other benefits can follow, e.g. we could enhance CreatePolygon() to
take an optional parameter to control the orientation. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo4'><![if !supportLists]><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'><span
style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>It’s too easy to break the concept of generic
capabilities. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>In my opinion we are done with generic capabilities. The problem
at hand is that it appears to be very difficult to address specific limitations
with the current approach. And not being able to add quickly a capability means
the user will be forced to do something against the FDO philosophy: check the
provider name etc. </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;
color:#1F497D'>L</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Dan.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> fdo-internals-bounces@lists.osgeo.org
[mailto:fdo-internals-bounces@lists.osgeo.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Thomas
Knoell<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 17, 2008 2:35 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> FDO Internals Mail List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [fdo-internals] RFC 20 for review<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Hi Jason,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Orest outlines a use case
(geometry curve types) where this approach would be helpful. Again, the main
benefit of this approach is that once a new capability has been approved by the
PSG, there is no need to add a new capability interface to FDO and hence force
all providers to be updated immediately. Eventually, it should be done, but
with the new approach it is up to the provider developer to schedule the work.
FDO would still be fine and working until then. This is a bit more flexible. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Thomas<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
fdo-internals-bounces@lists.osgeo.org
[mailto:fdo-internals-bounces@lists.osgeo.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jason Birch<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 17, 2008 12:24 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> FDO Internals Mail List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [fdo-internals] RFC 20 for review<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>As a non-developer I guess I don’t have a feeling for the
amount of pain involved in the current state (and don’t entirely
understand the need to decouple FDO’s API from the providers), so
can’t really make a call on whether this change is worth it. Was
there a specific case that caused this RFC to be created, or is this just a
general desire?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>As I mentioned before, I have some serious reservations about
anything that makes it easier for specific providers to diverge from generic
functionality, but if others feel that the cost/benefit is there, then
I’ll accept that decision.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Jason<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
fdo-internals-bounces@lists.osgeo.org
[mailto:fdo-internals-bounces@lists.osgeo.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Thomas
Knoell<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 17, 2008 08:58<br>
<b>To:</b> FDO Internals Mail List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [fdo-internals] RFC 20 for review<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>This is a reminder that the
deadline for comments on RFC 20 is end-of-day tomorrow. I would also appreciate
comments on Orest’s summary below.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> Thomas<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> fdo-internals-bounces@lists.osgeo.org
[mailto:fdo-internals-bounces@lists.osgeo.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Orest
Halustchak<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 15, 2008 9:34 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> FDO Internals Mail List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [fdo-internals] RFC 20 for review<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I haven’t heard any response – do folks think
it’s worth pursuing this. If it’s worthwhile in principle but need
to fix the details or not worthwhile?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Orest.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
fdo-internals-bounces@lists.osgeo.org
[mailto:fdo-internals-bounces@lists.osgeo.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Orest Halustchak<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 10, 2008 1:27 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> FDO Internals Mail List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [fdo-internals] RFC 20 for review<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Getting back to the general discussion, and trying to step back
a bit, there are definitely trade-offs here.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Pros:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'><span
style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Easier to define new capabilities: Instead of having a new
function every time we want to advertise a new capability, we can use a generic
function and not have to change the fdo api.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'><span
style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Providers can be updated over time rather than all having to be
recompiled with a new version of the fdo api.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'><span
style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>A small set of functions to call to discover all of a
provider’s capabilities.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Cons:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo4'><![if !supportLists]><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'><span
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color:#1F497D'>Too easy for providers to start defining their own very provider
specific capabilities. Perhaps for the osgeo providers we can control this
because we should still have RFC process, but we can’t control commercial
providers. This is the concern that a few of you have raised. It’s too
easy to break the concept of generic capabilities.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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color:#1F497D'>Developer has to know the return type to use the correct generic
function to get a capability value.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Maybe there are more pros and cons, but these are some of the
main ones.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Also, this mostly helps cases where we need to advertise a new
capability that doesn’t require other api changes. For instance, if we
add a whole set of new functions around network handling, we are changing the
api anyway, so the benefits aren’t really there as much. But, if we
discover that for existing functions, we’re hitting an issue with
different behavior that should be advertised, e.g. providers A, B, and C
support geometry curve types, but providers B and C only support them for
non-lat/long systems, we’re not adding new functions, just a more
detailed capabilities response. Once the PSC agrees on the capability, it can
be added without a new version of the fdo api. The current approach would need
to define a new function somewhere which implies a new fdo api version –
recompile all providers, etc.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>If we feel that the benefit does not outweigh the costs, then we
shouldn’t bother with it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I hope this helps clarify things.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Orest.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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