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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Hi Greg,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Yes, you are right. Class hint
will speed up response to DescribeSchema request.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Sorry for late response, I have eye
problems and I was not able to look at monitor at all. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Haris<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
fdo-internals-bounces@lists.osgeo.org
[mailto:fdo-internals-bounces@lists.osgeo.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Greg Boone<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 17, 2008 8:51 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> FDO Internals Mail List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [fdo-internals] Updated FDO RFC 23 For Review<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>That sounds like an
implementation detail for the KingOracle provider, and something you would have
to deal with if you chose to implement DescribeClasses, just as you had to deal
with it when implementing DescribeSchema.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Greg<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
fdo-internals-bounces@lists.osgeo.org
[mailto:fdo-internals-bounces@lists.osgeo.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Haris
Kurtagic<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 17, 2008 2:15 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> FDO Internals Mail List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [fdo-internals] Updated FDO RFC 23 For Review<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Translation is done via mapping
which is generated when Describe Schema was executed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>At least that is how King.Oracle
provider works.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>For example there could be 2
tables with same name but in different Oracle schemas. They could end up
in same Fdo Schema with different names.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Haris<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
fdo-internals-bounces@lists.osgeo.org
[mailto:fdo-internals-bounces@lists.osgeo.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Orest
Halustchak<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 17, 2008 7:59 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> FDO Internals Mail List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [fdo-internals] Updated FDO RFC 23 For Review<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>But, isn’t that exactly
what happens in an FDO Select command which takes class name? You have to
translate that into a select on a table.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Orest.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
fdo-internals-bounces@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:fdo-internals-bounces@lists.osgeo.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Haris Kurtagic<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 17, 2008 2:08 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> FDO Internals Mail List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [fdo-internals] Updated FDO RFC 23 For Review<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Now provider takes db schema +
db table name + posiblle user overrides and generates fdo schema name + class
name.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>To gain profit from new
functionality provider would now need to know exactly how from fdo schema +
class name to get db schema+table.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>I am affraid that process is not
exact.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> fdo-internals-bounces@lists.osgeo.org
[mailto:fdo-internals-bounces@lists.osgeo.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Greg Boone<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 17, 2008 7:52 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> FDO Internals Mail List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [fdo-internals] Updated FDO RFC 23 For Review<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>How is that any different from
the existing DescribeSchema command?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
fdo-internals-bounces@lists.osgeo.org
[mailto:fdo-internals-bounces@lists.osgeo.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Haris
Kurtagic<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 17, 2008 2:01 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> FDO Internals Mail List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [fdo-internals] Updated FDO RFC 23 For Review<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>What I see as potential problem
is how provider will figure out from class name what table is that.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Haris<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
fdo-internals-bounces@lists.osgeo.org
[mailto:fdo-internals-bounces@lists.osgeo.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Orest Halustchak<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 17, 2008 7:43 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> FDO Internals Mail List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [fdo-internals] Updated FDO RFC 23 For Review<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Yes, adding the feature class
list to DescribeSchema would be more compact but would only make sense if all the
providers were updated to support those. If we can get agreement from all the
provider writers to update their providers, then that would be a cleaner
solution.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Orest.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
fdo-internals-bounces@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:fdo-internals-bounces@lists.osgeo.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Ronnie Louie<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 17, 2008 1:19 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> FDO Internals Mail List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [fdo-internals] Updated FDO RFC 23 For Review<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Hi Traian,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>The “crazy
alternative” was explored in the original version of this RFC. The
optional implementation of returning specific classes as well as issues with
giving feedback on whether the command will honour the specifying of classes
was not an acceptable solution. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Ronnie<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
fdo-internals-bounces@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:fdo-internals-bounces@lists.osgeo.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Traian Stanev<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 17, 2008 11:10 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> FDO Internals Mail List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [fdo-internals] Updated FDO RFC 23 For Review<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>OK I see. In that case,
I’d prefer the breaking change in DescribeSchema (where you can ask for
specific classes). It’s true that we have to update all providers, but
IMO keeps the API more compact. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>A crazy alternative would be to
add a function to the DescribeSchema command which lets someone specify feature
class names they are interested in. This can then be treated as a hint by the
providers which need that and other providers can ignore it and return the full
schema – either way the class that the caller cares about will be in the
returned schema. This way there would be no work required of provides that
don't need it, and there are no new commands or capabilities to add.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Traian<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
fdo-internals-bounces@lists.osgeo.org
[mailto:fdo-internals-bounces@lists.osgeo.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Brent
Robinson<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 17, 2008 12:58 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> FDO Internals Mail List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [fdo-internals] Updated FDO RFC 23 For Review<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Hi Traian,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>It would be the last case. The
RDBMS providers cache the schemas but the first time retrieval can be expensive
when there are many classes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Brent. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
fdo-internals-bounces@lists.osgeo.org
[mailto:fdo-internals-bounces@lists.osgeo.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Traian
Stanev<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 17, 2008 12:53 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> FDO Internals Mail List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [fdo-internals] Updated FDO RFC 23 For Review<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>The impact on non-RDBMS
providers like SDF is a bit unclear to me. It seems like there are two cases.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span
style='color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>(1)<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style='color:#1F497D'>FDO connection is
kept open. In such case DescribeSchema operation is free, since the schema is
cached internally by the connection.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span
style='color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>(2)<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style='color:#1F497D'>FDO connection is
opened and then those new commands are executed – in this case the schema
would have to be deserialized, in its entirety, which would not make the new
commands perform any faster than DescribeSchema.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>It seems to me like making the
RDBMS providers cache their schema internally is something that would make the
extra commands unnecessary, and would only limit code changes to providers
which do have a problem with DescribeSchema, instead of having either all
providers implement new commands, or having client code have two code paths
everywhere it deals with getting a schema. However, I do not know enough about
the RDBMS providers to be sure if caching the schema is not possible in their
case. Or are we talking about the case where getting the schema even once, to
cache it, is too expensive (like if there are 1 million classes in Oracle)?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Traian<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
fdo-internals-bounces@lists.osgeo.org
[mailto:fdo-internals-bounces@lists.osgeo.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jason Birch<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 17, 2008 12:41 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> FDO Internals Mail List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [fdo-internals] Updated FDO RFC 23 For Review<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='color:#1F497D'>I like this approach,
though for consistency it would be nice if all of the providers implemented
these new commands as soon as possible. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='color:#1F497D'>From my perspective,
having to special case everything based on capabilities can get a bit
frustrating, especially for lowly scripters who barely understand how to tie
their shoes </span><span lang=EN-CA style='font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D'>J</span><span
lang=EN-CA style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='color:#1F497D'>Jason<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
fdo-internals-bounces@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:fdo-internals-bounces@lists.osgeo.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Ronnie Louie<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 17, 2008 00:39<br>
<b>To:</b> FDO Internals Mail List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [fdo-internals] Updated FDO RFC 23 For Review<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>RFC 23 (<a href="http://trac.osgeo.org/fdo/wiki/FDORfc23">http://trac.osgeo.org/fdo/wiki/FDORfc23</a>)
has been updated and re-posted for review. In particular, the
previously proposed changes to DescribeSchema have been dropped, and replaced
with a new DescribeClasses command. Also the API command names for enumerating
schemas and classes have been updated to GetSchemaNames and GetClassNames.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Please review the new proposal and reply to this list by
July 23. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Thanks<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Ronnie<o:p></o:p></p>
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