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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Where are we on this thread? <b>Haris</b>,
can you summarize the remaining issues you have with RFC 33? We have to come to
some agreement on how to proceed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
fdo-internals-bounces@lists.osgeo.org
[mailto:fdo-internals-bounces@lists.osgeo.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Orest
Halustchak<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:35 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> FDO Internals Mail List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [fdo-internals] Use of SQL pass through<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Well, the goal is to get back
one reader, a feature reader in this case, so that the client code is
simplified. We’re not specifically trying to replace both the data reader and
feature reader with one reader as in your first bullet, however, maybe that is
an alternative. What suggestions would you have around that? I don’t want to
lose the concept that a feature reader is returning “objects” based on some
class definition.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Orest.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
fdo-internals-bounces@lists.osgeo.org
[mailto:fdo-internals-bounces@lists.osgeo.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Haris
Kurtagic<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:15 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> FDO Internals Mail List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [fdo-internals] Use of SQL pass through<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Hi Alan,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>By extra processing and overhead
I mean code to be executed to try to create FDO class from arbitrary SQL
statement.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>I am suggesting to add functions
((if missing) to retrieve column info about executed sql statement.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Most of current code won't work.
You give could example: "Would select primary key" - no normal way
for provider to understand it is primary key selected in arbitrary SQL
statement and set it as such in FDO class. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>If we are talking about use case
where application would allow end-user to create arbitrary SQL to be executed
and display I don't see any problem with executing SQL statement, Iterating
trough columns, getting info about columns and display geometry and attributes.
I really don't see point in provider in name of application iterating trough
columns and try to create FDO class. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>I may not understand well what
is your goal but :<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>- if it is to have only one type
of reader then I think different approach is needed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>- if it is to create application
which would allow end-user to enter specific select sql statement and create
fdo class for it and later use it as other fdo classes, I think then it
is up to application to create such fdo class. Such class would be
created using column info returned by reader and in some cases with some
additional interaction with end-user.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>I think it is very important for
FDO to be simple and exact as much as possible. Complicating FDO and providers
with some specific use cases is something to be avoided.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Haris<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
fdo-internals-bounces@lists.osgeo.org
[mailto:fdo-internals-bounces@lists.osgeo.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Alan Quinton<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 25, 2009 6:20 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> FDO Internals Mail List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [fdo-internals] Use of SQL pass through<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> I don’t understand
what you mean by “extra processing” or “overhead” – do you mean memory overhead
or performance or both? Because if you don’t call GetClassDefinition on the
feature reader, then you are not incurring anything, other having to take the
trouble to write the function. And I think there is some guidance there as to
how to do this, even for arbitrary columns. So yes, you would have to create
this class definition object on the fly, if the client called the function,
which they would only need to do once presumably, when they get the reader. So
I’m not understanding where the performance problem is. Are you saying that
building this class def once would be a performance problem?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>As far as I’m aware, column
metadata is only available from class definitions, so instead of doing that,
are you suggesting FDO define an entirely new way to get column metadata?
That’s how I read: “My suggestion is to enable application to get info about
returned columns trough feature readers”.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>The point is, as Orest stated,
to process the results of both fdo selects and sql selects with a common
reader. Downstream code that draws or edits features and which works off
FDO feature readers would not need to be modified. It would ‘just work”. For
example, you might define an SQL select which selects the primary key and
geometry from one table, then joins to other tables, using sub-selects and any
features of SQL that the data store supports. If you produced a feature reader
for this data, clients could draw this data, stylize it, and even potentially
edit it without having to modify their code that does this since it just works
off a feature reader with a “pseudo” class definition. This is a powerful
capability since it essentially lets you define dynamic views of data using SQL.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<br>
Alan<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
fdo-internals-bounces@lists.osgeo.org
[mailto:fdo-internals-bounces@lists.osgeo.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Haris
Kurtagic<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 25, 2009 8:05 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> FDO Internals Mail List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [fdo-internals] Use of SQL pass through<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Orest,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Provider would return primary
key from arbitrary SQL statement ? This RFC is about executing any type of SQL
statement and returning some type of FDO class for it, if so then no primary
key there.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>" don’t need to use it if
they don’t want", but provider would need to do some processing for it and
it eventually would not be used.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Class definition can include
information which it can extract from database after executing SQL statement.
Objects to be created can include this information.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Again, I don't see additional
value if those information about executed SQL statement would be put inside FDO
object (in many cases it wouldn't be even possible or even desirable) over what
is currently posible with "regular" database drivers. I can see lot
of additional work to make it possible and even than in many cases those won't
be used. There is also performance penalty.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Haris<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
fdo-internals-bounces@lists.osgeo.org
[mailto:fdo-internals-bounces@lists.osgeo.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Orest
Halustchak<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 25, 2009 4:35 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> FDO Internals Mail List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [fdo-internals] Use of SQL pass through<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>But the class definition
includes additional information that you wouldn’t find just by getting
information a property at a time. The idea with the feature reader is that it
is returning “objects” based on a class definition rather than arbitrary
collections of columns. The addition of getting a feature reader from the SQL
command is intended to be optional for the caller, they don’t need to use it if
they don’t want. But the class definition includes extra information such as
the identity properties (primary key) so that the caller can determine the
unique identity of these objects, which is important if the caller is going to
draw these objects and then enable a user to edit them or go back to the data
store for other information about the object.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Orest.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
fdo-internals-bounces@lists.osgeo.org
[mailto:fdo-internals-bounces@lists.osgeo.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Haris
Kurtagic<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 25, 2009 10:10 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> FDO Internals Mail List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [fdo-internals] Use of SQL pass through<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>To return FDO class from any SQL
will require extra processing from provider. This processing will in best case
add unnecessary overhead to provider.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>My suggestion is to enable
application to get info about returned columns trough feature readers. Same way
as non-fdo applications are doing it right now.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>I don't see any advantage in
trying to squeeze SQL statement result into FDO class and I can see many
problems there.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Even opposite, I would prefer to
optimize FDO commands. Instead trying to guess what type of SLQ statement
application has executed or parsing current FDO filters it would be better that
we would have very simple "query window of data" type of command in
FDO. That is something not directly related to this RFC but it is direction
where I think FDO could go. Less overhead and simpler commands for most usual
tasks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Haris<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
fdo-internals-bounces@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:fdo-internals-bounces@lists.osgeo.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Orest Halustchak<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 25, 2009 3:17 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> FDO Internals Mail List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [fdo-internals] Use of SQL pass through<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>There hasn’t been too much
feedback on this.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Haris, for SQL selects, to
return data in a feature reader, we either can simply describe the results of
the select and produce a temporary fdo class for the reader or if the SQL
select happens to correspond cleanly to an existing feature class (e.g.
something as simple as select * from roads), then we can use that fdo class
instead. The goal is to make it easier for application developers that can use
either fdo selects or sql selects and process the results with a common reader.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Anybody else have comments? I
know we got some feedback from Jackie.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Orest.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
fdo-internals-bounces@lists.osgeo.org
[mailto:fdo-internals-bounces@lists.osgeo.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Greg Boone<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 04, 2009 11:39 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> FDO Internals Mail List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [fdo-internals] Use of SQL pass through<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Hi Haris,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Can you provide some examples of
non-DDL use cases that would make the proposal too complex? I also feel we
should limit the discussion at this time to read only DML statements such as
Select.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Greg<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
fdo-internals-bounces@lists.osgeo.org
[mailto:fdo-internals-bounces@lists.osgeo.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Haris
Kurtagic<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 04, 2009 5:41 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> FDO Internals Mail List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [fdo-internals] Use of SQL pass through<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>I would like to divide this and
answer in two parts.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Part with Parameters direction
is something we need. As it is already written , mostly to be able to execute
and get results from stored procedures.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>About executing SQL statements and
trying to squeeze result of it inside FDO class/schema, I think it is too
complex and in my mind without chance to be successful. There is so many cases
in which it can't be done properly. If we are missing some info about result of
execution of SQL we could look into existing specs like ODBC and add those. I
agree FDO application should be able to get all necessary info about executed
SQL so app can be written in generic way but I don't see putting that info in
FDO class or reengineering sql etc.. I believe what can be done with api's like
odbc is ok for fdo api too.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Haris<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
fdo-internals-bounces@lists.osgeo.org
[mailto:fdo-internals-bounces@lists.osgeo.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Orest
Halustchak<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 03, 2009 3:28 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> FDO Internals Mail List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [fdo-internals] Use of SQL pass through<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>I would like to solicit feedback, discussion, and
suggestions on requirements and issues that we are seeing with the
FdoISQLCommand which is used for the purpose of SQL pass through for some of the
RDBMS-based providers.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Please see the discussion below.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Orest.<span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>… snipped …<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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