<HTML><BODY style="word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; "><DIV>For what it's worth - I agree completely with Carrin's request.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>If we truly believe that FOSS software can stand up to and even exceed Proprietary alternatives - there should be nothing to be feared, and everything to be gained from an open forum for comparison and debate. In addition - where FOSS has shortcomings, it's important to understand what they are and where they exist .. we can't easily do that in a bubble. Being as *open* as possible to everyone is central to the success of FOSS software and community.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>FOSS clearly needs to be a priority for this event - in particular regarding workshops and learning opportunities around these core FOSS technologies. However, let's welcome the debate with proprietary technologies -- just having the debate is a sign of maturing and coming of age of open source technologies in the geospatial arena.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>my 2 cents.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Dave</DIV><DIV><DIV><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"></SPAN></SPAN> </DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><BR><DIV><DIV>On 15-Oct-07, at 10:21 AM, Gavin Fleming wrote:</DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><O:SMARTTAGTYPE namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="country-region"> <O:SMARTTAGTYPE namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="place"> <DIV class="Section1"><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT size="3" color="blue" face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="font-size:12.0pt;color:blue">[sent by Gavin on behalf of Carrin]<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT size="3" color="blue" face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="font-size:12.0pt;color:blue"><O:P> </O:P></SPAN></FONT></P><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT size="3" color="blue" face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="font-size:12.0pt;color:blue">Hi </SPAN></FONT><O:P></O:P></P><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT size="3" face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="font-size: 12.0pt"> <O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT size="3" color="blue" face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="font-size:12.0pt;color:blue">We need to be careful about restricting the non-FOSS topics only to <ST1:COUNTRY-REGION w:st="on"><ST1:PLACE w:st="on">South Africa</ST1:PLACE></ST1:COUNTRY-REGION>. Many developing world delegates will only get sponsorship if they can present, and as they are unlikely to be using FOSS, we are immediately excluding many people from participating. And they will want to be there because they want to learn. Obviously there needs to be a strong FOSS content, but I think we should rather look at the topics and see where people from developing countries could contribute. Only developing countries have Millennium Development Goads (MDG) among other topics (see below) and if they are not using FOSS does that mean that we don't want to hear what they have to say? And if no-one can do a presentation on the MDG's using FOSS, do we simply close that session? There are a number of topics where we want people to demonstrate what they are doing and to see how what else can also be done using FOSS. There may be instances where FOSS can't do what people need to be done, and that should be part of the debate, where is it applicable and where isn't it. I would really like to see FOSS people discussing/debating</SPAN></FONT><FONT size="2" color="blue"><SPAN style="font-size:10.0pt;color:blue">/</SPAN></FONT><FONT color="blue"><SPAN style="color:blue">advising people about what they could use for their projects in areas where FOSS is not being used and </SPAN></FONT><FONT size="2" color="blue"><SPAN style="font-size:10.0pt;color:blue"> relevant </SPAN></FONT><FONT color="blue"><SPAN style="color:blue">presentations are not available. </SPAN></FONT><O:P></O:P></P><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT size="3" face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="font-size: 12.0pt"> <O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT size="3" color="blue" face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="font-size:12.0pt;color:blue">So I'd suggest that we open up non-FOSS talks to the developing nations and see what sort of response we get. If no-one is using FOSS for the MDG's is there not some way we can create an opportunity for this group to have access to people who can see the abstracts beforehand or sit in on the session and generate some discussion afterwards. Developing countries will come because they want to learn about FOSS, but they will want examples from developing countries because we operate under very different constraints to the developed world. People will want to come to the conference because they will learn something, and I think we need to find a way of educating people using relevant topics. The gist of the motivation was education through debate, and for that you need both FOSS and non-FOSS. </SPAN></FONT><O:P></O:P></P><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT size="3" face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="font-size: 12.0pt"> <O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT size="3" color="blue" face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="font-size:12.0pt;color:blue">some of the other topics in which there may not be many people using FOSS in the developing world:</SPAN></FONT><FONT color="black"><SPAN style="color:black"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT color="blue"><SPAN style="color:blue"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT size="3" color="blue" face="Palatino"><SPAN style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Palatino;color:blue">Sustainable Development </SPAN></FONT><FONT color="blue"><SPAN style="color:blue"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT size="3" color="blue" face="Palatino"><SPAN style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Palatino;color:blue">Millennium Development Goals </SPAN></FONT><FONT color="blue"><SPAN style="color:blue"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT size="3" color="blue" face="Palatino"><SPAN style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Palatino;color:blue">NGOs, CBOs, community development</SPAN></FONT><FONT color="blue"><SPAN style="color:blue"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT size="3" color="blue" face="Palatino"><SPAN style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Palatino;color:blue">Land management and reform </SPAN></FONT><FONT color="blue"><SPAN style="color:blue"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT size="3" color="blue" face="Palatino"><SPAN style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Palatino;color:blue">Disaster management </SPAN></FONT><FONT color="blue"><SPAN style="color:blue"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT size="3" color="blue" face="Palatino"><SPAN style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Palatino;color:blue">Participatory GIS </SPAN></FONT><FONT color="blue"><SPAN style="color:blue"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT size="3" color="blue" face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="font-size:12.0pt;color:blue"> <O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT size="3" color="blue" face="Palatino"><SPAN style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Palatino;color:blue">cheers</SPAN></FONT><FONT color="blue"><SPAN style="color:blue"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT size="3" color="blue" face="Palatino"><SPAN style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Palatino;color:blue">Carrin Martin </SPAN></FONT><FONT color="blue"><SPAN style="color:blue"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT size="3" color="blue" face="Palatino"><SPAN style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Palatino;color:blue">GISSA </SPAN></FONT><FONT color="blue"><SPAN style="color:blue"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT size="2" face="Arial"><SPAN style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Arial"><O:P> </O:P></SPAN></FONT></P> </DIV> </O:SMARTTAGTYPE></O:SMARTTAGTYPE><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">_______________________________________________</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">FOSS4G2008LOC mailing list</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><A href="mailto:FOSS4G2008LOC@lists.osgeo.org">FOSS4G2008LOC@lists.osgeo.org</A></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><A href="http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/foss4g2008loc">http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/foss4g2008loc</A></DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></BODY></HTML>