[OSGeodata] FOIA and VMAP1 anyone?

[Ned Horning]

Jo,

I forgot to ask about the VMAP0 copyright issue. What exactly is the
question? The license agreement is in the readme file. If there are
questions about what can be done with these data isn't it an issue of
interpretation of the license? Wouldn't a lawyer be a better place to start?
I'm just not sure if we would get a more accurate reply from the NGA. If we
wanted to go to the source wouldn't ESRI be a better place to start?

I'm no expert on these maters so maybe I'm missing the point?

In any case I agree that contacting the NGA on behalf of OSGeo is a good
idea. 

Ned 


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jo Walsh [mailto:jo at frot.org]
> Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 11:04 PM
> To: geodata at geodata.osgeo.org
> Subject: Re: [OSGeodata] FOIA and VMAP1 anyone?
> 
> dear Ned, Chris, all,
> 
> On Fri, Jul 07, 2006 at 05:16:40PM -0400, Chris Holmes wrote:
> > >data because they resided on CDs that contained restricted data. They
> > >claimed that the amount of work required to extract these data from the
CD
> > >was too great to qualify for a FOIA request.
> > Interesting.  Do you have a list of what countries don't have
> > 'restrictions'?  I'll forward this information on to my friend, see what
> > he thinks.  But basically he's kind of in to harassing the government
> > for things like this.  And I don't think he'd consider the fact that it
> > resides on a CD that has restricted data a good enough argument, and
> > would be willing to try to prove it in a court of law.
> > >If you're interested I'm happy to share the somewhat outdated material
that
> > >I have (letters, contacts, CD index map, VMAP 1 CD availability).
> > That'd be great.
> 
> This cound be a good place to start - collecting case histories
> from those who have tried and been stonewalled. If one started a wiki
> page / archive as a place to stand, I reckon quite a few people with
> related histories would put their hands up.
> 
> My sense about this is; this debate has been going on a long while[0].
> It's likely a apt time for another attempt. Wikipedia mentions a "Free
> World Maps Foundation" working on this, but the only trace of them
> left is a now-defunct MSN groups page.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vector_Map#Debate_about_availability_of_data
> 
> But, I am not sure that FOIA is the best vehicle for this.
> >From what little i understand, agencies are not obliged to release
> data under FOIA if it requires processing to release it from
> exemptions. One possibility would be to offer to sign an NDA as a
> trusted party, and do the processing to make the data fit for public
> release. This could be a useful stance for OSGeo to take, but could be
> a lot of overhead as a project. I reckon it would also be really
> helpful to have a good, detailed use case for what would be done with
> VMap1 - not just "we want the data on principle" but "here are the
> educational / social purposes we'd put it to". How useful *is* VMap1
> really going to be, given its age? (we can't know, right? ;/)
> 
> (A related fun story is Mike Frumin's attempts to get Metrocard
> transit-usage tracking data out of the New York transit authority via
> FOIL, to make optimal-path maps of subway journeys -
> http://research.eyebeam.org/projects/nyc-metrocard-foil )
> 
> Last year I talked to some people from the OSI who seemed very
> interested in the idea of carrying out "impact litigation" to get
> VMap1 into the public domain in full; it is possible they would
> respond positively to a funding approach. (Chris, maybe you've joined
> the dots there already?)
> 
> I hope in any case to open a conversation with NIMA/NGA about VMap* on
> behalf of OSGeo and this group - Markus suggested we contact them to
> attempt to get definite, reproducible word as to the extent of the
> non-commercial copyright that ESRI claims it holds in VMap0.
> 
> cheers,
> 
> jo
> 
> [0] http://lists.directionsmag.com/discussion/read.php?f=13&i=15&t=13
> [1]
>
http://69.17.46.181/manifold/manuals/5_userman/mfd50Public_Access_to_Public_
> Data.htm