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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Bob,<br>
      <br>
      Besides not historically having developer resources to generally
      have more than one version officially in play at at time, I think
      a lot of what you are saying is already happening.  I know of at
      least two groups who are pushing well beyond the base GeoMoose
      codebase (and are contributing back enhancements as they
      stabilize).  So, playpens to try out experimental ideas already
      exist and anyone is free to create their own.<br>
      <br>
      In terms of official releases, we need to maintain a stable and
      predictable product and try to maintain compatibility between
      versions.  I don't think we need a bunch of different varieties of
      GeoMoose to satisfy different experiences (WebGL/Mobile/IE).  I
      think the flexibility is already there in GeoMoose to tailor the
      functionality to be appropriate to the browser/device without
      needing to develop what would essentially become separate
      products. <br>
      <br>
      Jim<br>
      <br>
      On 11/20/2012 01:01 PM, Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul) wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:C9CEA89772DA74488B5A5B6EB17DC48106544FAF@055-CH1MPN1-003.055d.mgd.msft.net"
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        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans
            MS"">Jim,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans
            MS""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans
            MS"">Generally, my thoughts revolve around having more
            than one version of GeoMoose in play at a time.  I don’t
            think it would be reasonable to think all users would want
            to switch to a potentially, completely new technology for
            development.  Having a separate “playpen” so to speak, with
            regard to adding features (even browser specific things)
            would seem like a good idea as a development lab sort of
            approach to trying things.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans
            MS""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans
            MS"">Maybe there needs to be a version for mobile as
            well, although I think there is an argument for the mobile
            space moving into the regular desktop capabilities space and
            so a Mobile version may not require differences.  Maybe it
            comes down to refocusing of priorities for end use.  The
            mobile market perhaps, should  be the main focus during
            development, with other users being set to the secondary
            level.  Either way, this is a movement of one type or
            another in a specific development direction.  And not all
            will agree with what that direction would/should be.  I
            don’t believe this needs to be a browser decision making
            thing either, but it’s potentially there depending on how
            some new technologies may be introduced.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans
            MS""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans
            MS"">Bobb<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans
            MS""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans
            MS""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans
            MS""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans
            MS""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in
          0in 0in 4.0pt">
          <div>
            <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
              1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
              <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
                  Jim Klassen [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:klassen.js@gmail.com">mailto:klassen.js@gmail.com</a>]
                  <br>
                  <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 20, 2012 11:44 AM<br>
                  <b>To:</b> Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul)<br>
                  <b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:geomoose-psc@lists.osgeo.org">geomoose-psc@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
                  <b>Subject:</b> Re: [geomoose-psc] [OpenLayers-Users]
                  Future of OpenLayers or OL3<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            </div>
          </div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal">Bob,<o:p></o:p></p>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">I don't understand what you are asking.
               As much as dropping (particularly older, < 9) IE
              support would make development easier, it is possible and
              considered good design to gracefully degrade to not need
              to use the latest fanciest features if they are not
              available.  Also, phones/tablets which are increasingly
              important, also don't have the same level of browser
              support as desktop browsers.<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">So what is the "this" that you want to
              change to move GeoMoose to a higher level?<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">We already support and are using HTML5
              features.  We no longer support IE 6 and older.  We are
              using OpenLayers and Dojo to (at least attempt to) manage
              the graceful fallback when running on less capable
              browsers.<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">Jim<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal">On Nov 20, 2012, at 10:56 AM,
                  Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul) wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
              </div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><br>
                <br>
                <o:p></o:p></p>
              <div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                      style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Comic
                      Sans MS"">All,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                      style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Comic
                      Sans MS""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                      style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Comic
                      Sans MS"">FYI – Just saw this thread and
                      passing it along to our list.  I’ve had some
                      similar thoughts around GeoMoose with the same
                      sorts of reservations about what people might
                      want/not want as far as browser support.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                      style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Comic
                      Sans MS""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                      style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Comic
                      Sans MS"">A general question here, is this
                      going to essentially take a big project to come
                      along to make this happen, or are there others
                      interested in moving to a higher level with
                      GeoMoose?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                      style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Comic
                      Sans MS""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                      style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Comic
                      Sans MS"">Bobb</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                      style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Comic
                      Sans MS""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                      style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Comic
                      Sans MS""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                      style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Comic
                      Sans MS""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                </div>
                <div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue
                  1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
                  4.0pt;border-width:initial;border-color:initial">
                  <div>
                    <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
                      1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in
                      0in;border-width:initial;border-color:initial">
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
                            class="apple-converted-space"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> </span></span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""><a
                              moz-do-not-send="true"
                              href="mailto:openlayers-users-bounces@lists.osgeo.org">openlayers-users-bounces@lists.osgeo.org</a><span
                              class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a
                              moz-do-not-send="true"
                              href="mailto:[mailto:openlayers-users-bounces@lists.osgeo.org]">[mailto:openlayers-users-bounces@lists.osgeo.org]</a><span
                              class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On

                              Behalf Of<span
                                class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>George
                            Silva<br>
                            <b>Sent:</b><span
                              class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday,
                            November 20, 2012 10:51 AM<br>
                            <b>To:</b><span
                              class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Sergeant_york<br>
                            <b>Cc:</b><span
                              class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a
                              moz-do-not-send="true"
                              href="mailto:openlayers-users@lists.osgeo.org">openlayers-users@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
                            <b>Subject:</b><span
                              class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re:
                            [OpenLayers-Users] Future of OpenLayers or
                            OL3</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal">The web is evolving fast. Many
                      web clients are being deprecated at the
                      organizations around the world.<o:p></o:p></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal">Sooner or later, everyone
                        will use a more compatible browser. OpenLayers
                        cannot wait for larger organizations to adopt
                        newer browsers. The development of new
                        technology cannot be hold by the obsolence of
                        others.<o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal">That said, I feel that if you
                        have a customer that has a large user base and
                        still want's to keep using internet explorer 6
                        (that is like, 10 years old?), it's also your
                        job to convince them otherwise. There are open
                        solutions to this problem (webkit, ff, opera?)
                        and they don't need to spend one dollar on it.<o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal">2cents<o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                    <div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at
                          2:42 PM, Sergeant_york <<a
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:electronicpanda@gmail.com"
                            target="_blank">electronicpanda@gmail.com</a>>
                          wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal">Hello there,<br>
                          <br>
                          I want to share my ideas and hesitations about
                          GIS technologies and<br>
                          OpenLayers.<br>
                          <br>
                          Firstly, when I heard OL3 will use webGL I was
                          so happy... Until I read<br>
                          about microsoft's policy about webGL. Probably
                          with fear of competition they<br>
                          are completely thinking that webGL has
                          security issues. That leaves<br>
                          Silverlight for map applications if you want
                          to use computer's hardware<br>
                          totally. Unfortunately Silverlight doesn't
                          have solutions as much as<br>
                          OpenLayers has. Technology is not the same as
                          1 sec ago and Microsoft<br>
                          follows the technology a bit slow.<br>
                          <br>
                          Secondly, in my opinion OpenLayers is the
                          strongest tool for using gis<br>
                          applications. Everytime when I face with a
                          problem, maybe as a habit, I say<br>
                          "I am sure OpenLayers has a solution for this
                          problem" then I find it in api<br>
                          reference. So it is not easy to stop using
                          OpenLayers for web based<br>
                          applications.<br>
                          <br>
                          On the other hand, eventhough Openlayers has
                          good solutions and applies<br>
                          standarts pretty well, with extreme problems
                          it may have performance issues.<br>
                          Actually, it is not OpenLayer's but web
                          browser's performance issues.<br>
                          Because of limitations to use computer
                          hardware in web applications cannot<br>
                          show than x amount of features or cannot show
                          more than y layers together.<br>
                          <br>
                          Let's get back to 1st paragraph. OL3 uses
                          webGL, I loved this. But still,<br>
                          unfortunately, high amount of the customers
                          are still use "internet<br>
                          explorer". Because when a person is old, it is
                          not easy to change their<br>
                          habits to make them use another browser that
                          will accept webgl, and when a<br>
                          person is old, most likely they have money to
                          support your projects.<br>
                          <br>
                          Also, with same performance reasons, it is not
                          easy to apply complex jobs in<br>
                          applications. Technology is improving but when
                          we are looking at OL geometry<br>
                          editing tools, they cannot serve a good
                          solution for users who want to edit<br>
                          geometries.<br>
                          <br>
                          So, I think it is a good idea to implement
                          webGL technologies but it is not<br>
                          a %100 solution for gis applications. That's
                          why I am looking forward for<br>
                          OL3 to has better performance without using
                          webGL too.<br>
                          <br>
                          What are your ideas for future of mainly OL
                          and also other GIS clientside<br>
                          tools?<br>
                          <br>
                          <br>
                          <br>
                          --<br>
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                          archive at<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a
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                      <p class="MsoNormal"><br>
                        <br clear="all">
                        <o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal">--<span
                          class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
                        George R. C. Silva<br>
                        <br>
                        Desenvolvimento em GIS<br>
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                          href="http://geoprocessamento.net/"
                          target="_blank">http://geoprocessamento.net</a><br>
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                          href="http://blog.geoprocessamento.net/"
                          target="_blank">http://blog.geoprocessamento.net</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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                      <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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            <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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    </blockquote>
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