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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Hobu,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>I take that to be a +1 for my subsequent motion to accept Sandro's pull request for GEOS 3.7.0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><a href="https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/geos-devel/2017-October/008092.html">https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/geos-devel/2017-October/008092.html</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>After we release GEOS 3.7.0 we can revote to flip the warning to an error as strk noted. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>I think a warning for GEOS 3.7 is good enough and GEOS 3.8 we can revisit making it into an error. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Because in GEOS 3.8 we'll probably be doing some serious breaking of the C++ API to bring it up to modern C++ standards.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Regina<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> geos-devel [mailto:geos-devel-bounces@lists.osgeo.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Howard Butler<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, October 04, 2017 11:20 AM<br><b>To:</b> GEOS Development List <geos-devel@lists.osgeo.org><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [geos-devel] RFC6 - Discourage use of C++ API by requiring a configure switch to install the c++ headers and SDK<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>On Oct 4, 2017, at 12:08 AM, Regina Obe <<a href="mailto:lr@pcorp.us">lr@pcorp.us</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>According to RFC1 – it says the motion can not pass <a href="https://trac.osgeo.org/geos/wiki/RFC1"><span style='color:purple'>https://trac.osgeo.org/geos/wiki/RFC1</span></a> with a -1 and I have to give Hobu a chance to debate his point<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D'>J</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b>"Respondents may vote "-1" to veto a proposal, but must provide clear reasoning and alternate approaches to resolving the problem within the two days."</b><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>So I'd like to hear Hobu's alternative suggestions.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>Sandro's suggestion to require users to #define an obnoxious acknowledgement to use the C++ API, with the expectation that it continues to be installed by default for any and all to continue, is a reasonable compromise to me.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>I'll back down my -1 to -0 if the RFC is modified to reflect that scenario.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>Thanks for picking up this issue, and your persistence and pragmatism, and the way you strived to listen to concerns and reach a consensus. Frankly from reading all the threads in one sitting, Mateusz and Howard didn't approach it similarly which is disappointing.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>My pragmatism is we don't get to change the rules after we've put things out there and people now might depend upon us. The C++ API for GEOS *pre-dates* the C API. The GEOS C API was a response to the recognition that some API insulation (along with a FFI-friendly interface) would be useful. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>It is not the library's responsibility to provide personal protective equipment. C++ users know the deal and accept that bargain when they use APIs. My note about GDAL in the previous email was to acknowledge that this same suggestion, to remove the C++ API, could not even be seriously considered there because there is so much public use of that API. There's even more *private* use that people probably don't know about. The same could be said for GEOS.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>Packaging systems need to make decisions about moving forward with base versions of foundational libraries like GDAL and GEOS with acknowledgement that doing so may cause some laggards to be dropped. The packagers can't write software to update the laggards, and the libraries need the freedom to innovate. Attention is life, as Paul said.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>Howard<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></body></html>