[GRASS-dev] thread fork [was: Holiday GUI updates to GRASS]

[Maciej Sieczka]

Michael Barton wrote:

Michael,

> Maciek
> 
> I am getting really fed up with your rude and insulting posts,

I'm criticizing the software, and you are taking it personaly.

> including the offlist flames

Let me quote the heaviest of my "offlist flames" (IMHO) so people
reading this can say for their own. It is taken from my email to you
(CCed to Hamish and Markus, but not to the list; I meant not to trigger
public attetntion for no purpose):

------
Maciej Sieczka wrote, on 2006.11.02:

Below is my email I was about to send to list, but I gave it up,
because I do respect you whatever happens and I do appreciate all your
hard work, whatever happens. But just between us, I want you to know
that in this particular case you have behaved bad, unfair, unwise, and
you deserve critics. Not be an asshole, I'll just tell it to you in
person, instead of flaming for no purpose on the list. I hope you will
rethink it and agree with me.
------

Let me add that the last sentence should begin with "Not *to* be an
asshole", which means I'm reffering to myself, if that was not clear (a
typo).

Or this one:

------
Give me a brake. Even a saint would get pissed off. I've been reporting
bugs, and they are ignored and even denied for no rational reason.
------

I have written this after some of my repeating attempts, for few weeks,
to explain the nature of a bug (which you finally fixed, Michael) which
you kept ignoring, making a fool of me on the lists. Propably I should
have given up the case as hopeless, but I didn't. Partly because I
still cared for the bug to be fixed, partly becasue I got pissed off
with how you depreciated my input, in public.

Anyway, what's so horrid about these sentences of mine?

> that prompted me to have my email automatically delete any of
> your direct mails to me.

As you wish.

> I knew it was a mistake to try and respond to you
> about zooming, but I did so to move the next release along for the good of
> the project. Unsurprisingly, you've again displayed the same offensive,
> arrogant, ignorance that have characterized your previous posts to me.

Wrong. I have only raised the issue I'm finding important again.

> So far, I have tried to remain civil (or simply say nothing), and have avoided
> responding in kind to these posts either privately or publicly because I
> have not wanted to subject my colleagues on this project to such emails
> (none of whom deserve it, even it you do). Yet this has simply gone too far.

> WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE???!!!

A man who is saying what he is thinking about the software he is using,
providing feedback to the author.

> Who are you to say what an interface should or should not do, what is right
> and wrong?

Because I'm using it. And I care for it to be good, so I can advertise it.

> Why do you think you are
> officially in charge of the GRASS interface design?

No, I think you are.

> Just because you don't like a design feature DOES NOT MAKE IT A BUG!!!

I tried to explain what the flaw in the design is. You don't want to
take the argument. Istead of replying to my argument, you are jumping
on me. Am I saying that whole gis.m is badly designed? No, I'm
criticizing one particular feature, and I'm describing the problem in
detail. Besides this problem, AFAIK, all the other tools (which I have
tried) are OK now, which I have already said on the list. And they are
so *also* thanks to my testing and reports.

>  You seriously need to learn this.
> 
> Because my goal is to develop an interface that makes GRASS more widely and
> easily useable to more people, I've taken many suggestions from many people.
> I also try to quickly fix real bugs as soon as possible. Your repeated
> statements that I ignore input from others is as offensive as it is false.
> 
> On the other hand, your arrogance is astounding. You  have made exactly ZERO
> positive contribution to the interface

I haven't committed any patch if that's what you mean. Propably I
won't. But I've been testing your software and reporting to you, for a
long time, in my spare time, and this *is* my contribution.

>--or any other part of the code base
> AFAICT. You are unwilling to learn even enough basic coding concepts to
> communicate with others clearly or understand clear replies when you get
> one. You have no idea of what is and is not feasible, or have any interests
> in anybody's priorities except yours.

MEGA Exageration. Unfair.

> Yet you are immediately ready to be
> offended when I am unwilling to satisfy your every whim, and prioritize it
> above anything else I might be doing.

Not true.

> I DON'T WORK FOR YOU!!!

And I don't work for you. But I'm trying to work with you. You are not
correct saying I'm not contributing, because most of my bug reports and
critics I have provided you so far have resulted in your fixes and
improvements. Which also means you are benefitting from my work.

I absolutely agree you have contributed several magnitudes more work
than I will propably ever be able to. But this doesn't mean I'm not
allowed to to criticise those of your commits, which are wrong. And,
most importantly, I'M NOT SAYING YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO FIX SOMETHING AT
MY WILL, as you claim. But, you also shouldn't deny a defect only
because you are not going to fix it. Cause then it is more unlikely
anybody will ever do. You don't want to fix it, you like as it is - OK.
But don't say black is white and pose me on an idiot. This I won't accept.

>  You seriously need to learn this too.
> 
> I VOLUNTEER

Me too.

> on this project because I think it is important, and because
> EVERYBODY EXCEPT YOU is polite, professional, and respectful of the time and
> work that we each put into this project.

I don't think I'm insulting people as you claim it. I am often rough,
especially when I'm convinced I'm right. I'm not going to "praise" you
or anybody else. We are talking about the real problems, not playing
master and pupil.

After all, who do you prefer? A perfectly polite and respectfull
useless silent one, or someone you can make some use of? Go shout at
those who are using GRASS but haven't contributed a single thing back.

> This has made it a very rewarding
> experience for me. I've been using and teaching GIS on two continents since
> you were in grammar school. And I've spent innumerable hours over the past
> three years learning interface coding, thinking about interface design (with
> lots of input from others), and coding and enhancing the GRASS interface.
> These don't make me the world's expert on GIS, but yes, they do make my
> design opinions far outweigh yours--just the same as with the people who
> contribute to other parts of the GRASS code base. But I am far past caring
> about your opinions or your bogus bug reports. These make it difficult to
> discover and fix real bugs or make useful design enhancements, which is why
> I simply ignore them anymore. Life is far too short to put up with these
> kinds of ignorant and insulting messages from you.

What can I say. You have just denied all my contribution into bug
reports and discussions. You also present me as a permanent boor, which
 is not only not true, but insulting as well. If I even criticize you
as a person, I don't do it in general, but only in reference to a
particular case.

> SO GET OFF MY CASE!!! You owe me a public apology for these repeated
> assaults,

What assualts? I'm not your enemy. Yes, I'm sorry I have pissed you
off. But you did just the same *first* ignoring or denying what I was
saying, a few times, for few weeks, and posing me on a moron who knows
nothing. (Although I do admit that besides these few times you always
appreciated my input.) I'm hot tempered, used few words too much (none
of which was really insulting as you describe it though).

FWIW: by "ignoring or denying what I was saying" I mean your replies to
my comments and criticism about:

1. box-zoom tool not preserving the zoom box aspect ratio in the output
region, in the constrained zoom mode; finally fixed by Michael

2. region maintained wrong in gis.m, so that single row/column
mismatches between the Map Display look and the actual Map Display
region settings used to crop out; finally fixed by Michael

3. single-click-zoom not preserving the initial region aspect ratio, in
the constrained zoom mode; pending (don't fix it if you don't want to,
but please don't claim it a good feature)

> though I don't expect one given the attitude you display.
>
> Your
> offlists posts to me are automatically deleted, so don't even bother
> responding in that way.

Since you have chosen to start this in public I'm responding in public
as you wish.

Maciek