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Vaclav,
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____________________</div>
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<font face="Helvetica" size="3" class="">C. Michael Barton</font></div>
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<font face="Helvetica" size="3" class="">Director, Center for Social Dynamics & Complexity </font></div>
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<font face="Helvetica" size="3" class="">Professor of Anthropology, School of Human Evolution & Social Change</font></div>
<div class=""><font face="Helvetica" size="3" class="">Head, Graduate Faculty in Complex Adaptive Systems Science</font></div>
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<font face="Helvetica" size="3" class="">Arizona State University</font></div>
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<font face="Helvetica" size="3" class=""><font class="">voice: </font><font class="">480-965-6262 (SHESC), 480-965-8130/727-9746 (CSDC)</font><br class="">
<font class="">fax: 480-965-7671 (SHESC), 480-727-0709 (CSDC)</font><br class="">
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<font face="Helvetica" size="3" class="">www: <a href="http://www.public.asu.edu/~cmbarton" class="">
http://www.public.asu.edu/~cmbarton</a>, <a href="http://csdc.asu.edu" class="">http://csdc.asu.edu</a></font></div>
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<div class="">On Nov 30, 2014, at 10:12 PM, Vaclav Petras <<a href="mailto:wenzeslaus@gmail.com" class="">wenzeslaus@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 11:37 PM, Michael Barton<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:Michael.Barton@asu.edu" target="_blank" class="">Michael.Barton@asu.edu</a>></span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:<br class="">
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<div style="word-wrap: break-word;" class="">My thinking was that a relief map simulates the appearance of topographic relief through the use of ‘hill shading’ (to use the ESRI term).
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<div class="">BTW, hill shading is not as bad term as other ESRI terms, the main problems is that it is really just ESRI term. It seems to me that nobody else is using it.<br class="">
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<div class="">You can “shade” the relief map made with r.relief or other psuedo relief maps, like an aspect map (can you shade a slope map in this way? Not sure what it would tell you visually) with a color map of some kind (hence r.shaded.relief). Or you can
“drape” the color map over the relief map—perhaps “r.color.drape”. </div>
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<div class="">I'm not sure if I follow the first part. But I don't like the drape think as a name and as a parameter (d.shade has now drapemap, I would like to get rid of it). I know what drape would mean with 3D surface (e.g. in NVIZ) but I have no idea what
this mean with elevation and its shade. It always seems to me that I'm draping the shade over the elevation (as it would draping do in 3D) but it is the other way around.<br class="">
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<div>Yes. the color is draped over the relief map. </div>
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<div>I think I understand what you are saying now. You are referring to the process that modifies the map to achieve the result. The grey shading of the relief map alters the colors of the colored map (elevation, land-cover, etc). In fact, d.shaded.relief is
a wrapper for d.his. The colored map serves as the hue (H of d.his) and the relief map is the intensity (I of d.his). In fact, something like this is what is happening in NVIZ too. In this sense, r.shaded.relief is accurate in that grey-scale shading creates
the appearance of topographic relief. </div>
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<div>On the other hand, I am referring to what *appears* to be happening visually. The grey-scale relief map *appears* to be a 3D terrain. A colored map *appears* to be draped over (or color shading) this 3D terrain. So the terminology I was suggesting referred
to the visual appearance, not the underlying imaging processing. Note that in most interface menus, the description refers to what appears to be going on visually, not to the underlying processes that produce the visual effects.</div>
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<div class="">Slope shading or whatever we want to call it is possible in some way. Higher slopes are darker.<br class="">
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<div>I tried this with a grey scale applied to slope. I didn’t find it very informative. But perhaps others would. Aspect works pretty well, but that is because aspect shading is similar to relief shading. </div>
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See also "red relief image maps" [1] but slope is there used as color, not shade. I'll try to add both examples to manual some time later.<br class="">
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<div>This use is more informative, though for an image fusion method, there is some duplication in the information fused (i.e., slope and topographic relief). In any case, the color is still being ‘applied’ to the 3D terrain. </div>
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<div class="">There are other kinds of image fusion for sure. The goal is to use names that users can easily understand. If d.shade can shade something other than a relief map of some kind, then perhaps d.shade is best. If it mainly is for shading relief maps
maps, d.shaded.relief might be better.</div>
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<div class="">It's mainly for relief but it's general. If there is no strong opposition I would stick to d.shade but yes I consider this as important because it seemed to me that it is hard find relief shading functionality in GRASS (and QGIS too actually).
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<div>d.shade is OK and short. But I worry a bit that it is not informative enough. d.shademap or d.shaderelief seems to me like it better conveys what the script is doing. But maybe it is very clear to most people. If so, shorter is better.</div>
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- d.shade drapemap=elevation reliefmap=relief ## shading a slope map is not going to be useful for most people<br class="">
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<div>This is OK to me. It tells the user what input is expected and implies what is going to happen.</div>
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<div class="">+ d.shade color=elevation shade=relief<br class="">
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<div>This is confusing. While the relief map is altering the intensity in the resulting HIS image, it visually appears that the color is doing the shading of the relief map. I would express the command and its arguments to make sense in this second way. If
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<div>d.shade color[or colormap or drapemap]=elevation relief[or reliefmap]=relief</div>
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<div>Cheers</div>
<div>Michael</div>
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____________________</div>
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<font size="3" face="Helvetica" class="">C. Michael Barton</font></div>
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<font size="3" face="Helvetica" class="">Director, Center for Social Dynamics & Complexity </font></div>
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<font size="3" face="Helvetica" class="">Professor of Anthropology, School of Human Evolution & Social Change</font></div>
<div class=""><font size="3" face="Helvetica" class="">Head, Graduate Faculty in Complex Adaptive Systems Science</font></div>
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<font size="3" face="Helvetica" class="">Arizona State University</font></div>
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<font size="3" face="Helvetica" class=""><font class="">voice: </font><font class=""><a href="tel:480-965-6262" value="+14809656262" target="_blank" class="">480-965-6262</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>(SHESC), <a href="tel:480-965-8130" value="+14809658130" target="_blank" class="">480-965-8130</a>/727-9746 (CSDC)</font><br class="">
<font class="">fax:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="tel:480-965-7671" value="+14809657671" target="_blank" class="">480-965-7671</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>(SHESC), <a href="tel:480-727-0709" value="+14807270709" target="_blank" class="">480-727-0709</a> (CSDC)</font><br class="">
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<font size="3" face="Helvetica" class="">www:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.public.asu.edu/~cmbarton" target="_blank" class="">http://www.public.asu.edu/~cmbarton</a>,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://csdc.asu.edu/" target="_blank" class="">http://csdc.asu.edu</a></font></div>
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<div class="">On Nov 30, 2014, at 7:54 PM, Vaclav Petras <<a href="mailto:wenzeslaus@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">wenzeslaus@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
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<span style="font-family: BitstreamVeraSerif-Roman; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">On
Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 8:12 PM, Michael Barton<span class=""> </span></span><span dir="ltr" style="font-family: BitstreamVeraSerif-Roman; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;" class=""><<a href="mailto:Michael.Barton@asu.edu" target="_blank" class="">Michael.Barton@asu.edu</a>></span><span style="font-family: BitstreamVeraSerif-Roman; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=""> </span><span style="font-family: BitstreamVeraSerif-Roman; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">wrote:</span><br style="font-family: BitstreamVeraSerif-Roman; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;" class="">
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<div style="word-wrap: break-word;" class="">My idea is that changing r.shaded.relief -> r.relief allows us to use r/d.shaded.relief for relief maps that are colored by another variable (elevation, land-cover, etc).
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I don't think this would be a good idea. r.relief (former r.shaded.relief) creates "shade from the (terrain) relief". r.shade (former r.shadedmap, and d.shade) allows to "put the shade on a colored/colorful raster" where both shade and raster can be anything.
Shade can be e.g. aspect, slope or shade derived from the relief. I know this is probably clear but his was my thinking.<br class="">
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I didn't though about r.shade and r.relief names before you suggested them and I'm not 100% satisfied with r.relief because it is in fact not relief but shade from relief. However, I like the new names because they are short, there is no problem with using
or not using the dot between words and they are distinct from each other.<br class="">
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<div class="">Michael<span class=""><br class="">
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____________________</div>
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<font size="3" face="Helvetica" class="">C. Michael Barton</font></div>
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<font size="3" face="Helvetica" class="">Director, Center for Social Dynamics & Complexity </font></div>
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<font size="3" face="Helvetica" class="">Professor of Anthropology, School of Human Evolution & Social Change</font></div>
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<font size="3" face="Helvetica" class="">Arizona State University</font></div>
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<font size="3" face="Helvetica" class=""><font class="">voice: </font><font class=""><a href="tel:480-965-6262" value="+14809656262" target="_blank" class="">480-965-6262</a><span class=""> </span>(SHESC), <a href="tel:480-965-8130" value="+14809658130" target="_blank" class="">480-965-8130</a>/727-9746 (CSDC)</font><br class="">
<font class="">fax:<span class=""> </span><a href="tel:480-965-7671" value="+14809657671" target="_blank" class="">480-965-7671</a><span class=""> </span>(SHESC), <a href="tel:480-727-0709" value="+14807270709" target="_blank" class="">480-727-0709</a> (CSDC)</font><br class="">
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<font size="3" face="Helvetica" class="">www:<span class=""> </span><a href="http://www.public.asu.edu/~cmbarton" target="_blank" class="">http://www.public.asu.edu/~cmbarton</a>,<span class=""> </span><a href="http://csdc.asu.edu/" target="_blank" class="">http://csdc.asu.edu</a></font></div>
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<div class="">On Nov 30, 2014, at 5:50 PM,<span class=""> </span><a href="mailto:grass-dev-request@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank" class="">grass-dev-request@lists.osgeo.org</a><span class=""> </span>wrote:</div>
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<span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(127, 127, 127);" class=""><b class="">From:<span class=""> </span></b></span><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">Vaclav
Petras <<a href="mailto:wenzeslaus@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">wenzeslaus@gmail.com</a>><br class="">
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<span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(127, 127, 127);" class=""><b class="">Cc:<span class=""> </span></b></span><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">GRASS
developers list <<a href="mailto:grass-dev@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank" class="">grass-dev@lists.osgeo.org</a>><br class="">
</span></div>
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<span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(127, 127, 127);" class=""><b class="">To:<span class=""> </span></b></span><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">Markus
Neteler <<a href="mailto:neteler@osgeo.org" target="_blank" class="">neteler@osgeo.org</a>><br class="">
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<span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(127, 127, 127);" class=""><b class="">Date:<span class=""> </span></b></span><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">November
30, 2014 at 5:31:35 PM MST<br class="">
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<span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(127, 127, 127);" class=""><b class="">Subject:<span class=""> </span></b></span><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">Re:
[GRASS-dev] [GRASS-SVN] r62845 - in grass/trunk/scripts: . d.shadedmap r.shadedmap</b><br class="">
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<div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 9:43 AM, Vaclav Petras<span class=""> </span><span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:wenzeslaus@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">wenzeslaus@gmail.com</a>></span><span class=""> </span>wrote:<br class="">
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<div class="">On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 9:30 AM, Markus Neteler<span class=""> </span><span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:neteler@osgeo.org" target="_blank" class="">neteler@osgeo.org</a>></span><span class=""> </span>wrote:<br class="">
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<span class="">On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 12:37 AM, Vaclav Petras <<a href="mailto:wenzeslaus@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">wenzeslaus@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class="">
><br class="">
> On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 5:40 PM, Michael Barton <<a href="mailto:Michael.Barton@asu.edu" target="_blank" class="">Michael.Barton@asu.edu</a>><br class="">
> wrote:<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Probably nothing to be done about this since r.shaded.relief goes back a<br class="">
>> long time. But a more sensible renaming would have the script now called<br class="">
>> r.chaded.relief renamed to simply r.relief. Then the modules that drape a<br class="">
>> colored map onto a relief map could be called x.shaded.relief,<br class="">
>> x.shadedrelief, or something like that.<br class="">
>><br class="">
> That's an interesting option. I'm not sure if I like it but it's worth<br class="">
> exploring. If we go even further we get:<br class="">
><br class="">
> r.shaded.relief -> r.relief<br class="">
> r.shadedmap -> r.shade<br class="">
> d.shadedmap -> d.shade<br class="">
<br class="">
</span>... along with:<br class="">
- r.blend<br class="">
<br class="">
Yes, I like this list better than the current names of discussed modules.<br class="">
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<div class="">So, if you like it, I can like it too and I will change it hopefully soon. Just to be sure: including<span class=""> </span><span class="">r.shaded.relief -> r.relief?<br class="">
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r.shaded.relief -> r.relief<br class="">
r.shadedmap -> r.shade<br class="">
d.shadedmap -> d.shade<br class="">
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<div class=""><span class="">Done in<span class=""> </span></span>r63305 with few other improvements.<br class="">
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Now I'm not sure with [rd].shade parameters. reliefmap and drapemap are not particularly explanatory. My idea was shade and color which is better when shade=slope compared to relief=slope. color=elevation is also quite understandable but of course it is quite
unexpected that the color option is a raster map.<br class="">
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<div class="">There is also one detail I'm not sure about.<span class=""> </span><span class="">r.relief might be now missing one keyword and that is "shaded relief". "relief" should be there too but having also<span class=""> </span></span><span class="">"shaded
relief" distinguishes it from things like "local relief (model)".<br class="">
</span></div>
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<a href="http://trac.osgeo.org/grass/changeset/63305" target="_blank" class="">http://trac.osgeo.org/grass/changeset/63305</a><br class="">
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<div class=""><span class="">Vaclav<br class="">
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