<div dir="ltr"><br><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 3:13 PM, Michael Barton <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:Michael.Barton@asu.edu" target="_blank">Michael.Barton@asu.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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I agree with Moritz’s concern. This is a GRASS strongpoint and a failing of most other GIS packages. Ironically, with other packages like Arc and QGIS, users *think* they know what they are doing but they don’t. With GRASS they realize that they don’t know
what they are doing before they start :-/
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<div>That said, if we can make starting the program and selecting a location/projection and mapset to work in less intimidating, I’m supportive of trying to do so. I don’t think that GRASS 7.0 RC2 is the place to experiment with this in the interests
of doing a faster release. Maybe 7.1</div></div></blockquote><div>+1</div><div><br></div><div>I would say, we should consider the new approach, but just suggesting "start grass in latlon and then change it" won't get many votes. If you think it's worth trying, some more complete suggestion should be presented, and we can certainly talk about that, but please not for this release. Let's focus on some minor improvements, for example what Michael suggested with the steps or Vasek mentioned some ways to show users some helpful messages.</div><div><br></div><div>Anna</div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">
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<div><span class="">Michael<br>
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<font face="Helvetica" size="3"><span style="font-size:12px">C. Michael Barton </span></font></div>
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<font face="Helvetica" size="3"><span style="font-size:12px">Director, Center for Social Dynamics & Complexity</span></font></div>
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<font face="Helvetica" size="3"><span style="font-size:12px">Professor of Anthropology, School of Human Evolution & Social Change</span></font></div>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On Jan 21, 2015, at 1:00 PM, <a href="mailto:grass-dev-request@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">
grass-dev-request@lists.osgeo.org</a> wrote:</div>
<br>
<div>
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<span style="font-family:-webkit-system-font,'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(127,127,127)"><b>From:<span> </span></b></span><span style="font-family:-webkit-system-font,'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,sans-serif">Helena
Mitasova <<a href="mailto:hmitaso@ncsu.edu" target="_blank">hmitaso@ncsu.edu</a>><br>
</span></div>
<div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;margin:0px">
<span style="font-family:-webkit-system-font,'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(127,127,127)"><b>Cc:<span> </span></b></span><span style="font-family:-webkit-system-font,'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,sans-serif">GRASS
developers list <<a href="mailto:grass-dev@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">grass-dev@lists.osgeo.org</a>><br>
</span></div>
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<span style="font-family:-webkit-system-font,'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(127,127,127)"><b>To:<span> </span></b></span><span style="font-family:-webkit-system-font,'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,sans-serif">Moritz
Lennert <<a href="mailto:mlennert@club.worldonline.be" target="_blank">mlennert@club.worldonline.be</a>><br>
</span></div>
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<span style="font-family:-webkit-system-font,'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(127,127,127)"><b>Date:<span> </span></b></span><span style="font-family:-webkit-system-font,'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,sans-serif">January
21, 2015 at 12:50:58 PM MST<br>
</span></div><span class="">
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<span style="font-family:-webkit-system-font,'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(127,127,127)"><b>Subject:<span> </span></b></span><span style="font-family:-webkit-system-font,'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,sans-serif"><b>Re:
[GRASS-dev] New splash screen for GRASS GIS 7?</b><br>
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</span><span class=""><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">On
Jan 21, 2015, at 2:16 PM, Moritz Lennert wrote:</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
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</span><blockquote type="cite" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span class="">
On 21/01/15 19:35, Markus Neteler wrote:<br>
</span><blockquote type="cite"><span class=""><br>
On Jan 21, 2015 6:56 PM, "Vaclav Petras" <<a href="mailto:wenzeslaus@gmail.com" target="_blank">wenzeslaus@gmail.com</a><br>
<<a href="mailto:wenzeslaus@gmail.com" target="_blank">mailto:wenzeslaus@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 12:24 PM, Markus Neteler <<a href="mailto:neteler@osgeo.org" target="_blank">neteler@osgeo.org</a><br>
</blockquote>
<<a href="mailto:neteler@osgeo.org" target="_blank">mailto:neteler@osgeo.org</a>>> wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">The "project" has been introduced in the past to de-confuse user<br>
coming from "other" GIS.<br>
"Location" alone is not quite clear I fear.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
I see the motivation but random rename of one thing at one place is<br>
</blockquote>
just adding to confusion. If we need explanation, then we need something<br>
like explanation in some less prominent color, similarly to what is in<br>
GUI elsewhere (see attachment). Broad rename is out of question I guess.<br>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
Project is very ambiguous, it is location, mapset or GUI workspace?<br>
</blockquote>
For me project is usually mapset, sometimes in combination with GUI<br>
workspace and this how I explain that to people.<br>
<br></span><span class="">
In my opinion we should not have the location selection dialog at all.<br>
Revolution!<br>
<br></span><span class="">
We should start GRASS right away in latlong like most GIS in the world.<br>
<br>
Then let the user open the dialog to change projection if desired from<br>
inside.<br>
<br>
This would avoid a lot of questions right away.<br>
</span></blockquote><span class="">
<br>
Please don't do this ! I find the fact that GRASS does not provide a default projection system, but forces the user to think about projection from the start, one of its strengths, both for work and for teaching.<br>
</span></blockquote>
<br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span class="">
<span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">Moritz
- that won't be lost, I agree that it is a very important GRASS feature.</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
<br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
<span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">The
concept of location/mapset remains, but they will have to start thinking about it once they start GRASS,</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
<span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">not
before they even open it. In my class when we go through starting GRASS step-by-step, the students are fine (although there is<span> </span></span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
<span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">still
the problem that some unzip apps create an extra directory when unzipping the files automatically which people don't notice),</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
<span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">but
when in workshops or when on their own I have seen users struggling to get GRASS even open because they give it wrong path</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
<span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">(e.g.,
to the location rather than gis directory) or they don't know what to select and whether to create a new location or new mapset.</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
<span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">I
am not sure how well the approach of selecting the location from within GRASS will work, but I am willing to give it a try.</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
<span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">I
have just written the chapter on creating new locations and reprojecting data in GRASS for the 4th edition of grassbook so I will have to rewrite it,</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
<span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">but
this also made me aware of how cumbersome the startup page may be for new users.<span> </span></span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
<br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
<span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">On
the other hand I just discovered how easy and elegant is to start GRASS from command line and skip the startup screen altogether.</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
<br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
<span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">I
am not pushing strongly for this change - we can try this first in our lab on real-world projects with newcomers and experienced users</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
<span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">and
see whether it would help or whether it would cause even more confusion,</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
<br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
<span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">Helena</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
</span></div>
</blockquote>
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