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I agree with Moritz’s concern. This is a GRASS strongpoint and a failing of most other GIS packages. Ironically, with other packages like Arc and QGIS, users *think* they know what they are doing but they don’t. With GRASS they realize that they don’t know
what they are doing before they start :-/
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<div class="">That said, if we can make starting the program and selecting a location/projection and mapset to work in less intimidating, I’m supportive of trying to do so. I don’t think that GRASS 7.0 RC2 is the place to experiment with this in the interests
of doing a faster release. Maybe 7.1</div>
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<div class="">Michael<br class="">
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<font class="Apple-style-span" face="Helvetica" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;">______________________________</span></font></div>
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<font class="Apple-style-span" face="Helvetica" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;">C. Michael Barton </span></font></div>
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<font class="Apple-style-span" face="Helvetica" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;">Director, Center for Social Dynamics & Complexity</span></font></div>
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<font class="Apple-style-span" face="Helvetica" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;">Professor of Anthropology, School of Human Evolution & Social Change</span></font></div>
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<font class="Apple-style-span" face="Helvetica" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;">Head, Graduate Faculty in Complex Adaptive Systems Science</span></font></div>
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<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; font-family: Helvetica;">Arizona State University</span></div>
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<font class="Apple-style-span" face="Helvetica" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;">Tempe, AZ 85287-2402</span></font></div>
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<font class="Apple-style-span" face="Helvetica" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;">USA</span></font></div>
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<font class="Apple-style-span" face="Helvetica" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;"><br class="">
</span></font></div>
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<font class="Apple-style-span" face="Helvetica" size="3" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: 'Lucida Grande'; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;">voice:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;">
</span>480-965-6262 (SHESC), 480-965-8130/</span></font><span style="font-size: 12px;" class="">727-9746</span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""> (CSDC)</span></div>
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<font class="Apple-style-span" face="Helvetica" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;">fax: 480-965-7671(SHESC), 480-727-0709 (CSDC)</span></font></div>
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<font class="Apple-style-span" face="Helvetica" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;">www: <span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;">
</span><a href="http://csdc.asu.edu" class="">http://csdc.asu.edu</a>, <a href="http://shesc.asu.edu" class="">
http://shesc.asu.edu</a></span></font></div>
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<font class="Apple-style-span" face="Helvetica" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;"><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"></span><a href="http://www.public.asu.edu/~cmbarton" class="">http://www.public.asu.edu/~cmbarton</a></span></font></div>
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<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Jan 21, 2015, at 1:00 PM, <a href="mailto:grass-dev-request@lists.osgeo.org" class="">
grass-dev-request@lists.osgeo.org</a> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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<span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(127, 127, 127);" class=""><b class="">From:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></span><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">Helena
Mitasova <<a href="mailto:hmitaso@ncsu.edu" class="">hmitaso@ncsu.edu</a>><br class="">
</span></div>
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<span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(127, 127, 127);" class=""><b class="">Cc:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></span><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">GRASS
developers list <<a href="mailto:grass-dev@lists.osgeo.org" class="">grass-dev@lists.osgeo.org</a>><br class="">
</span></div>
<div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; margin: 0px;" class="">
<span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(127, 127, 127);" class=""><b class="">To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></span><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">Moritz
Lennert <<a href="mailto:mlennert@club.worldonline.be" class="">mlennert@club.worldonline.be</a>><br class="">
</span></div>
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<span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(127, 127, 127);" class=""><b class="">Date:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></span><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">January
21, 2015 at 12:50:58 PM MST<br class="">
</span></div>
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<span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(127, 127, 127);" class=""><b class="">Subject:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></span><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">Re:
[GRASS-dev] New splash screen for GRASS GIS 7?</b><br class="">
</span></div>
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<br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">
<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">On
Jan 21, 2015, at 2:16 PM, Moritz Lennert wrote:</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">
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<blockquote type="cite" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">
On 21/01/15 19:35, Markus Neteler wrote:<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class=""><br class="">
On Jan 21, 2015 6:56 PM, "Vaclav Petras" <<a href="mailto:wenzeslaus@gmail.com" class="">wenzeslaus@gmail.com</a><br class="">
<<a href="mailto:wenzeslaus@gmail.com" class="">mailto:wenzeslaus@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class=""><br class="">
On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 12:24 PM, Markus Neteler <<a href="mailto:neteler@osgeo.org" class="">neteler@osgeo.org</a><br class="">
</blockquote>
<<a href="mailto:neteler@osgeo.org" class="">mailto:neteler@osgeo.org</a>>> wrote:<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">The "project" has been introduced in the past to de-confuse user<br class="">
coming from "other" GIS.<br class="">
"Location" alone is not quite clear I fear.<br class="">
</blockquote>
<br class="">
I see the motivation but random rename of one thing at one place is<br class="">
</blockquote>
just adding to confusion. If we need explanation, then we need something<br class="">
like explanation in some less prominent color, similarly to what is in<br class="">
GUI elsewhere (see attachment). Broad rename is out of question I guess.<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class=""><br class="">
Project is very ambiguous, it is location, mapset or GUI workspace?<br class="">
</blockquote>
For me project is usually mapset, sometimes in combination with GUI<br class="">
workspace and this how I explain that to people.<br class="">
<br class="">
In my opinion we should not have the location selection dialog at all.<br class="">
Revolution!<br class="">
<br class="">
We should start GRASS right away in latlong like most GIS in the world.<br class="">
<br class="">
Then let the user open the dialog to change projection if desired from<br class="">
inside.<br class="">
<br class="">
This would avoid a lot of questions right away.<br class="">
</blockquote>
<br class="">
Please don't do this ! I find the fact that GRASS does not provide a default projection system, but forces the user to think about projection from the start, one of its strengths, both for work and for teaching.<br class="">
</blockquote>
<br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">
<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Moritz
- that won't be lost, I agree that it is a very important GRASS feature.</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">
<br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">
<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">The
concept of location/mapset remains, but they will have to start thinking about it once they start GRASS,</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">
<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">not
before they even open it. In my class when we go through starting GRASS step-by-step, the students are fine (although there is<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">
<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">still
the problem that some unzip apps create an extra directory when unzipping the files automatically which people don't notice),</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">
<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">but
when in workshops or when on their own I have seen users struggling to get GRASS even open because they give it wrong path</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">
<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">(e.g.,
to the location rather than gis directory) or they don't know what to select and whether to create a new location or new mapset.</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">
<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">I
am not sure how well the approach of selecting the location from within GRASS will work, but I am willing to give it a try.</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">
<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">I
have just written the chapter on creating new locations and reprojecting data in GRASS for the 4th edition of grassbook so I will have to rewrite it,</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">
<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">but
this also made me aware of how cumbersome the startup page may be for new users.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">
<br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">
<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">On
the other hand I just discovered how easy and elegant is to start GRASS from command line and skip the startup screen altogether.</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">
<br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">
<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">I
am not pushing strongly for this change - we can try this first in our lab on real-world projects with newcomers and experienced users</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">
<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">and
see whether it would help or whether it would cause even more confusion,</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">
<br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">
<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Helena</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">
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