<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>
Hi,<br>
Whatever platform we keep or migrate to, please just remember the
unknown number of GRASS-interested people out there, like myself,
who will not make the time to regularly login to a website to see if
there happens to be anything interesting.<br>
Likewise as bad as having to login "to see" , is to have to click a
link from a push email, get redirected and maybe still have to
login, and then only see that the message was uninteresting to the
person (me).<br>
<br>
Weekly (periodic) digests that are 'pushed' lack the "now" factor so
minimise one's ability to get involved.<br>
<br>
I hope you all find and agree a solution that also caters for
mailing-list style correspondence.<br>
<br>
Regards and thanks for discussing this before "just changing
things".<br>
Zoltan<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2021-01-21 09:48, massimo di stefano
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAOYxiqbEL_rKqHxJ8j0MC0ThOr1Vp+2UxaJmKry7hgZ9zyrS1g@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="auto">‘’’</div>
<div dir="auto"><span style="word-spacing:1px;color:rgb(49,49,49)"> I
think emails (and mailing lists) are awesome, but mailing
lists are increasingly seen as archaic and not accessible</span><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><span style="word-spacing:1px;color:rgb(49,49,49)">‘’’</span></div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">What about migrating our mailing list to mailman3?</div>
<div dir="auto">The postorius interface looks modern and when
integrated with hyper kitty, allows an easy access to the list
archives (including search and post statistics).</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">My 2cents.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Il giorno gio 21 gen 2021
alle 4:32 AM Vaclav Petras <<a
href="mailto:wenzeslaus@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true">wenzeslaus@gmail.com</a>>
ha scritto:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Let me finally write some arguments for GitHub
Discussions.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>First of all, I think it is a tradeoff, so I agree
that the issues here are valid, at least to a point. My
question now is if it is worth enabling GitHub
Discussions anyway.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As I mentioned earlier, people are asking for a
web-based solution (see e.g. post from November on
grass-user [1]). I think emails (and mailing lists) are
awesome, but mailing lists are increasingly seen as
archaic and not accessible. Nabble does not seem to cut
it and it was even demoted on the mailing list for its
link instability (which I think is a concern). It seems
that if the Nabble situation would be fixable, it would
be fixed already. Signup to receive all emails for a
specific mailing list before posting a question is a big
commitment, especially when people are using multiple
software packages or are just trying out GRASS GIS. Is
it clear to everybody they need to sign up before
posting anyway? When you are already committed to GRASS
GIS, they might not show stoppers, but when you are not,
they certainly can be. Conclusion: If we want even the
uncommitted users to ask questions, we need something
which feels light, you already have an account there,
and it does not require you to manage email filtering.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>There are already web-based forums, namely GIS
StackExchange and StackOverflow proper where
GRASS-related questions are being asked. This
demonstrates the interest in the web-based Q&A
platform, however when you look at the posts there, you
see that it does not work that great. First, many of the
original posts and consequently answers are actually not
a good fit for that kind of platform - often a back and
forth discussion is required. And perhaps more
importantly, there are only a few GRASS power users
answering there compared to mailing lists and comparing
to how many people from the GRASS community have an
account on GitHub. Conclusion: Even if we don't direct
users to a platform and support that platform, people
will use it anyway resulting in harm as questions are
not properly answered.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>GitHub Discussions is a good web-based forum for
three reasons, 1) GitHub is a platform we are already
committed to, 2) devs, core+addon contributors, and
bug-reporting users all have an account there, 3) a lot
of potential users already have account there. The last
point is especially interesting because not only that a
lot of code-aware GIS users or scientists have an
account there, but a lot of developers have an account
there and we are very very interested in attracting
developers. Developers/programmers need to combine
multiple projects to create whatever they are creating.
Asking them to subscribe to a mailing list in order to
ask a question is exactly the reason why they will try
their luck with another project. Conclusion: To attract
more users, especially those who are developers, a
GitHub-related service, such as GitHub Discussions, is
needed and we are already on GitHub.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As I mentioned in the initial post, I don't think
enabling GitHub Discussions means closing mailing lists.
I think it is important we have there is an option to
ask a question, or even report a problem, without
signing up for a proprietary third party service (it is
bad enough we more or less require that for
contributions). However, as there are people who see
GitHub Terms and Conditions or a web interface as a
barrier to post a question, there are people who see
mailing list sign up for more inbox traffic, emailing,
or attachment limitations as a barrier. The commitment
needed for a mailing list, includes, perhaps
surprisingly, an important group to reach that is the
developers.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best,<br>
</div>
<div>Vaclav<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>[1] <a
href="https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/grass-user/2020-November/081842.html"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/grass-user/2020-November/081842.html</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at
8:41 AM Markus Neteler <<a
href="mailto:neteler@osgeo.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">neteler@osgeo.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">On
Sun, Jan 17, 2021 at 6:35 PM Brendan <<a
href="mailto:brendan.harmon@gmail.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">brendan.harmon@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
><br>
> Could posts on the mailing list automatically be
posted on GitHub Discussions and vice versa? That's how
the GRASS Nabble forums work right? Those look great.<br>
<br>
If that would work, perhaps yes.<br>
<br>
Otherwise I'm with Moritz and the others who see the
risk of fragmentation etc.<br>
<br>
Markus<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
grass-dev mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:grass-dev@lists.osgeo.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">grass-dev@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
<a
href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-dev"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-dev</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
grass-dev mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:grass-dev@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">grass-dev@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-dev"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-dev</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
grass-dev mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:grass-dev@lists.osgeo.org">grass-dev@lists.osgeo.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-dev">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-dev</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
=============================================
Zoltan Szecsei GPrGISc 0031
Geograph (Pty) Ltd.
GIS and Photogrammetric Services
Cape Town, South Africa.
Mobile: +27-83-6004028
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.geograph.co.za">www.geograph.co.za</a>
=============================================
</pre>
</body>
</html>