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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=742583214-27072006>Scott,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=742583214-27072006></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=742583214-27072006>Thanks for your comments. It's good to hear another
observer up and commenting. The company is good to have.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=742583214-27072006></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=742583214-27072006>I will make some inline comments to the GRASS community
at large using '>'. I certainly don't expect Scott to have all or any
answers.</SPAN></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> grassuser-bounces@grass.itc.it
[mailto:grassuser-bounces@grass.itc.it] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Sampson,
David<BR><B>Sent:</B> July 27, 2006 09:52<BR><B>To:</B>
grassuser@grass.itc.it<BR><B>Subject:</B> [GRASS-user] GRASS Project Steering
Committee (PSC) Nominations[Amendments]<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
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size=2></FONT><BR><BR>
<P><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>On Behalf of Scott Mitchell</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Courier New" size=2>============================</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Courier New"><FONT size=2>The issue with a PSC is probably not so much the
membership, in that first we need consensus that there should/will be a PSC, and
then how it will come into being. I do appreciate you bringing this up,
Dave, as it has spurred me (and hopefully some others) to go back and re- read
past posts on the issue.<SPAN class=742583214-27072006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff> </FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face="Courier New"><FONT size=2><SPAN class=742583214-27072006>> My
understanding is that a PSC (or something) is required to get GRASS officialiy
into OSGEO. I don't know if it has to be a PSC per say, but some type of
formality that involves the community and makes sure the interests of a few are
not highjacked from the masses. OSGEO is looking for some BASIC formalization.
If we can find the most BASIC formal process that can make the contributors
happy that would be great. I will comment on the past posts a little later. My
goal is to do what I can to encourage GRASS at large to get the BASIC formality
required to make OSGEO happy for now.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face="Courier New"><FONT size=2><SPAN class=742583214-27072006>> One
vote to consider is the all encompasing joining of OSGEO. I have had a flood of
e-mails in support of becoming part of OSGEO officialy. However on the lists I
sense resistance. And I think this is process, not concept. The current process
is... well... non existent since this is a brainstorning phase and things have
only been proposed and rejected. nothing agreed on. So if we want to be part of
OSGEO what are we willing to do to follow their baic
requirements.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face="Courier New"><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=742583214-27072006> </SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT
face="Courier New"><FONT size=2> From having done so, I agree that there is
general consensus from those that have posted on the issue, but that there are
also concerns with specifics of the formation and/or decision making
procedure. I don't have any issue with the process as it has been
discussed, and agree that we need suggestions for alternatives from those that
do have issues.<SPAN class=742583214-27072006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff> </FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face="Courier New"><FONT size=2><SPAN class=742583214-27072006><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff>> I will dig up some of the comments of the past to
get people chewing on them and maybe bring some of the people who made the
original comments to participate in a process they can live
with.</FONT> </SPAN></FONT></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>For those that don't know me (I'm relatively
quiet on the list): </FONT><BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>this
is all from the perspective of someone who is a long time GRASS user (from
version 4.1), that has had to admit to himself in the past couple of years that
he is not going to find the time to contribute significantly to code
development, despite having had a lot of fun playing with programming as a grad
student. I have a large stake in the future of GRASS in terms of academic
research and teaching, so am </FONT></P>
<P><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>working to increase contribution in the
training and outreach areas. </FONT><BR><FONT face="Courier New"
size=2>I can read the code, but am too rusty to be writing it !
:)</FONT> <SPAN class=742583214-27072006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2> </FONT></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN class=742583214-27072006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>> I
hear yhea...</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN class=742583214-27072006> </SPAN><FONT face="Courier New"><FONT
size=2>But back on topic - the most active programmers are making a great effort
to get the new release out, and this is definitely appreciated by the greater
community. This decision-making issue has longer term implications, and
while it shouldn't be taken lightly nor rashly, I think it's in everyone's
interest to get it settled. So I hope we can keep the issue moving
forward.<SPAN class=742583214-27072006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff> </FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face="Courier New"><FONT size=2><SPAN class=742583214-27072006><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff>> I realy like what GRASS 6.1 offers. Great strides
on the GUI. I agree that their efforts are appreciated. I am starting to
get the feeling that some aspects of the PSC are making the developers feel
alienated from the process. And then others I get the feeling they like the
status quo, or want an alternative. I think we are all open to an alternative
the works for users, programers, beta testers, documentors, teachers etc etc.
Nothing is hashed in stone. </FONT> </SPAN></FONT></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face="Courier New"><FONT size=2>So my purpose here is to declare my
support for the formation of a steering committee, and full participation in
OSGEO. I too had concerns about the copyright transfer issues early on,
but this seems to have been taken care of. I think we should be able to
agree on a structure that will maintain the spirit of open,
informal <SPAN class=742583214-27072006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff> </FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face="Courier New"><FONT size=2><SPAN class=742583214-27072006><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff>> +1 ofn supporting the PSC. So we'll just keep
pluging away until we have some players up to plate. +1 on OSGEO. I assume
the community at large is in support or we would not be where we are. but
atleast I know there are 6 people in agreance with something (smile).
Copyright, an important issue, although not my area of
expertise.</FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></P>
<P><FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=742583214-27072006>> When forming a local OSGEO chapter my major
concern was with GRASS having a voice becasue there were no GRASS users
represented by OSGEO membership, where the mapserver side was well represented.
My concern is being addressed by the development of a membership process wihtin
OSGEO. This makes me happy that some day soon I hope, GRASS is represented in
OSGEO and the local Ottawa Chapter with project and personal memberhsip in
OSGEO.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>collaboration and wide-open potential input,
but still have a </FONT><BR><FONT face="Courier New"><FONT
size=2>management structure that is formal enough to be considered viable by
OSGEO. I won't go into details since there's extensive discussion in the
archives already, and I think that the main issue is probably to rationalize
different viewpoints already expressed.<SPAN class=742583214-27072006><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff> </FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face="Courier New"><FONT size=2><SPAN class=742583214-27072006><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff>> I think some of the major BARRIER topics would be
worth while bringing out and clearing up. I feel as those some of those topics
were left as hanging issues that were never resolved. I'll try to dig up a few
ones I think killed the last process (by educated guessing). But if anyone
knows of unresolved issues... this si the time to table
them.</FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face="Courier New"><FONT size=2><SPAN class=742583214-27072006><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff>> Thanks for the links bellow. This is where
I will grab some of the dead horses to flog in the field
again.</FONT> </SPAN></FONT></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>For those that haven't read past discussions
already, or want a refresher, see (at least):</FONT> </P>
<P><A
href="http://grass.itc.it/pipermail/grass5/2006-April/022429.html"><U><FONT
face="Courier New" color=#0000ff
size=2>http://grass.itc.it/pipermail/grass5/2006-April/022429.html</FONT></U></A>
<BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>and</FONT> <BR><A
href="http://grass.itc.it/pipermail/grass5/2006-April/022501.html"><U><FONT
face="Courier New" color=#0000ff
size=2>http://grass.itc.it/pipermail/grass5/2006-April/022501.html</FONT></U></A>
</P>
<P><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Despite my declaration that it's probably not
the "real" issue, I'm quite happy to support all of these nominations for a
steering committee...</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>></FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New"
size=2>Michael Barton +1</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Hamish
Bowman +1</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Brad
Douglas +1</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Paul
Kelly +1</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New"
size=2>Markus Neteler +1</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Cedric
Shock +1</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Venkatesh
Raghavan +1</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Roger Bivand +1</FONT>
<BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Paolo Zatelli +1</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT face="Courier New"><FONT size=2>The number of committee members is
another open issue - MAYBE the potential committee is getting big, but I would
add a nomination for Helena Mitasova. If this has already happened and
you've declined, sorry, I missed that in reviewing the archives. Helena
has been involved in the GRASS community for as long as I can remember, is a
passionate advocate, and contributes greatly to the consensus-seeking
discussions on the development list in our informal current approach. She
has research and development partnerships in various labs around the world that
have used GRASS in their research and contributed improvements to GRASS
capabilities and performance back into the code base for all to share. A
perfect example of the open source model ! :)<SPAN
class=742583214-27072006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff> </FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face="Courier New"><FONT size=2><SPAN class=742583214-27072006><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff>> Size is important. Agreed... but so far we are at
ZERO (0) as no one has aceepted nomination.... so I think we have a while until
we need to worry about size... I figure once we have one or two people step
forward, the PSC is formed and they can start working on tasks at hand. Then
momentum will begot momentum</FONT> </SPAN></FONT></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face="Courier New"><FONT size=2>I know you're trying to reduce the
cross posting, but since I'm not currently subscribed to the user's list, this
probably won't get through there - so I'm addressing the dev list too.<SPAN
class=742583214-27072006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff> </FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face="Courier New"><FONT size=2><SPAN class=742583214-27072006><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff>> Well the crystal ball has spoken and I think the
majority of people would like the cross posting to stop. I was told that its a
fact that ALL nominees are on the user list. I've had two people on the list
tell me they are not on the users list. But I was given fact so moved on it. I
also got the feeling that a vote on that subject was excessive so I moved on it
myself. Firefights either way. I just duck and hope for the
best.</FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></P>
<P><FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=742583214-27072006>> I sugested perhaps a seprate mailing list
altogether, but that was also rejected. So I think to apease the masses we will
stick to the users list and only the users list and risk loosing some
people We'l convinve them to come over to the dark side
though.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Cheers,</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New"
size=2>Scott</FONT> <SPAN class=742583214-27072006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2> </FONT></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN class=742583214-27072006></SPAN> </P>
<P><SPAN class=742583214-27072006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>>
Cheers for sure... when are we having our next beer anyhow there
Scott</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN class=742583214-27072006></SPAN> </P>
<P><SPAN class=742583214-27072006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Dave</FONT> </SPAN></P></BODY></HTML>