I couldnt agree more with the previous postings. GIS is about
concepts, not about learning which buttons get you to an end
result. Given infinity, a monkey could write a work of
Shakespeare. Given even less time, a monkey could press enough
buttons to perform "GIS Analysis" using the ESRI suite.<br>
<br>
On a previous post someone replied with something that has really stuck with
me. It may have been Dylan. (quote not verbatim) "Using a computer graphics package
does not make one an artist. Using a word processor does
not make one a writer. Using GIS software does not make one a GIS
Professional". The key here is that GIS is about the concepts and
analytical capabilities, the chosen software is just the tool to do it. GRASS is an excellent tool for many reasons.<br>
<br>
Now for the bad news: Living in the US where ESRI is dominant
(easily seen on job postings), I would have to unfortunately admit that
it is important to at a minimum be able to say you have used ESRI
ArcMap when job hunting. Unfortunately (from a US perspective),
much like "computers" are synonymous with Windows, GIS is
synonymous with ESRI. <br>
<br>
Now for the big "However...". For companies/agencies
looking to start up GIS or take it to the next level besides simple
editing and map printing, or even migrate away from an ESRI suite due
to the enormous yearly "maintenance fees" & bugs, GRASS and other
open source GIS and databases have *huge* advantages. From
experience I can say that since ESRI re-wrote their GIS in 2000 to
"ArcMap", the quality of the software has tanked. In retrospect I am
thankful, because it is what drove me to open source GIS like GRASS.
One obvious drawback to ArcMap is the massive costs. Take the startup
costs alone (these are from memory and may be dated they are *not*
exact quotes): ArcMap Arc/Info = $14,000USD. Raster
analysis extension = $2,500USD. 2.5 (3d) analysis extension =
$2,500USD. (those extensions may be $5,000)<br>
<br>
Looking at it from a student's perspective, think of how much power is
given to the student to be able to go to an agency or company and say
"ArcMap... yeah I can use that software. But if you really want
cost savings and a robust, scalable GIS, you might want to consider
GRASS GIS on Linux or Mac. The initial cost savings are in the
tens of thousands of dollars, the quality of software is far superior,
and there are no yearly maintenance fees." That is empowering and
enriching students rather than robbing them. <br>
<br>
So, the answer has two "yes's". Yes, due to market saturation (in
the US), students should be equipped with the knowledge to push ESRI
buttons. And yes, learning GIS concepts and applications for real
world applications should be done with open source software GIS such as
GRASS as it causes the student to come away with a solid understanding
of what GIS is and how it works. Also given the fact that GRASS
is part of many open source GIS solutions, students can then explore
other open source GIS software like GDAL/OGR, Quantum GIS, Mapserver,
and PostGIS/PostgreSQL. <br>
<br>
Take the semester to teach GIS concepts with GRASS GIS on
Mac/Linux. Then take a day to show how to push buttons on
Windows/ArcMap. Be sure to explain open source advantages and how
to join the revolution. Then let the students make the
decision. It will be an easy one.<br>
<br>
Mark<br>
<br>
<br>
<br><div><span class="gmail_quote">On 9/18/06, <b class="gmail_sendername">Roy Sanderson</b> <<a href="mailto:R.A.Sanderson@newcastle.ac.uk" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">R.A.Sanderson@newcastle.ac.uk
</a>> wrote:</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Hello Tom, Michael and others<br><br>Thanks for your comments on this. I was somewhat baffled by the external<br>examiner's report, as student feedback had been very positive on the<br>course. Perhaps he thought GRASS was only used in education? I did
<br>demonstrate a few ArGIS features to the students at the end of the course,<br>but it was noticable that only one of them wanted to use it when it came to<br>their projects, and the rest stuck to GRASS.<br><br>Best wishes
<br>Roy<br><br>At 10:43 18/09/06 -0400, Thomas Adams wrote:<br>>Michael,<br>><br>>Completely agree. One might also go to<br>><a href="http://grass.itc.it/community/index.php" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
http://grass.itc.it/community/index.php
</a> to see the international use of<br>>GRASS GIS and to <a href="http://gmt.soest.hawaii.edu/" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://gmt.soest.hawaii.edu/</a> for the use of GMT, which
<br>>many GRASS GIS users also use extensively. The assertion that GRASS is
<br>>not used outside of Newcastle is an openly inflammatory and contentious<br>>remark and clearly not grounded in fact.<br>><br>>So, one would also presume that UNIX, Linux, and MacOS X should not be<br>>used in an academic setting for the same reason, that is, that
<br>>MS-Windows dominates, so…?<br>><br>>Tom<br>><br>><br>><br>>Michael Barton wrote:<br>>> Roy,<br>>><br>>> You'll probably get a lot of response on this, but I'll add a bit here. In
<br>>> terms of not being known outside Newcastle, take a look at the<br>>> user/developer map on the GRASS web site. I'm in Arizona, USA--quite a ways<br>>> from Newcastle--and we are using GRASS in research projects and teaching it
<br>>> to students here.<br>>><br>>> Because many companies use ESRI products, it will be useful for students<br>>> seeking employment in those companies to have some familiarity with ESRI<br>>> software. However, they will go farther if they have a good
<br>understanding of<br>>> GIS concepts, and especially how to use GIS to solve problems, than simply<br>>> the techniques of how to push which buttons. People who actually know what<br>>> to use GIS for, can get up to speed in different systems pretty fast. So an
<br>>> overview of different software, including ESRI, might be a good addition to<br>>> a course that uses GRASS to more effectively teach how to use GIS.<br>>><br>>> Also, those who are employed in places where the results are more important
<br>>> than the software used might do better with GRASS--e.g. those focusing on<br>>> research or in consulting.<br>>><br>>> Michael<br>>><br>>> __________________________________________
<br>>> Michael Barton, Professor of Anthropology<br>>> School of Human Evolution & Social Change<br>>> Center for Social Dynamics & Complexity<br>>> Arizona State University<br>>><br>
>> phone: 480-965-6213<br>>> fax: 480-965-7671<br>>> www: <a href="http://www.public.asu.edu/%7Ecmbarton" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://www.public.asu.edu/~cmbarton
</a><br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>>> From: Roy Sanderson <
<a href="mailto:R.A.Sanderson@newcastle.ac.uk" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">R.A.Sanderson@newcastle.ac.uk</a>><br>>>> Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 08:51:47 +0000<br>>>> To: <
<a href="mailto:grassuser@grass.itc.it" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">grassuser@grass.itc.it
</a>><br>>>> Subject: [GRASS-user] ArcGIS, GRASS and employability<br>>>><br>>>> Hello<br>>>><br>>>> Last spring I converted a short course I give to some of our MSc students,
<br>>>> from ArcGIS 9 to GRASS 6.0. Whilst the students had had no prior exposure<br>>>> to GIS (or indeed Linux), it was obvious that they progressed through<br>their<br>>>> work much more rapidly and learnt more in terms of the fundamental
<br>>>> concepts, and I was pleased with the overall results.<br>>>><br>>>> However, the External Examiner's report for the MSc has criticised the<br>>>> change to GRASS, stating that "it isn't known outside Newcastle" and that
<br>>>> it is harming the students' employment prospects on graduation. The<br>>>> examiner is clearly wanting me to go back to using something like<br>ArcGIS or<br>>>> MapInfo in the GIS module.
<br>>>><br>>>> It would be useful if anyone could provide me with a few facts/figures on<br>>>> the use of GRASS outside of academia, especially in any large commercial<br>>>> companies etc.
<br>>>><br>>>> Many thanks<br>>>> Roy<br>>>><br>----------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>>>> -------<br>>>> Roy Sanderson<br>>>> Institute for Research on Environment and Sustainability
<br>>>> Devonshire Building<br>>>> University of Newcastle<br>>>> Newcastle upon Tyne<br>>>> NE1 7RU<br>>>> United Kingdom<br>>>><br>>>> Tel: +44 191 246 4835
<br>>>> Fax: +44 191 246 4999<br>>>><br>>>> <a href="http://www.ncl.ac.uk/environment/" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://www.ncl.ac.uk/environment/</a>
<br>>>> <a href="mailto:r.a.sanderson@newcastle.ac.uk" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">r.a.sanderson@newcastle.ac.uk
</a><br>>>><br>>>><br>----------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>><br>>> _______________________________________________
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http://grass.itc.it/mailman/listinfo/grassuser
</a><br>>><br>><br>><br>>--<br>>Thomas E Adams<br>>National Weather Service<br>>Ohio River Forecast Center<br>>1901 South State Route 134<br>>Wilmington, OH 45177<br>><br>>EMAIL: <a href="mailto:thomas.adams@noaa.gov" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
thomas.adams@noaa.gov</a><br>><br>>VOICE: 937-383-0528<br>>FAX: 937-383-0033<br>><br>><br>><br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>grassuser mailing list<br><a href="mailto:grassuser@grass.itc.it" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
grassuser@grass.itc.it</a><br><a href="http://grass.itc.it/mailman/listinfo/grassuser" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://grass.itc.it/mailman/listinfo/grassuser</a><br></blockquote>
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