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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EL link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Dear all,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Following the discussion I realized that the problem is who gives what instead of how much the award matters to the winner.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I don’t think it is the money. I don’t agree with this kind of award. For me, the title is more than enough for the winner. What it matters is who gives the award. How much he (the organization in this case) counts.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>In ancient Olympic games the award was a small olive branch put on top of the head of the winner. Its value was zero because you could get as many branches as you wanted from the surround (millions of olive branches around any place in Greece) but you couldn’t get THE olive branch of the games. This is what it counts.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>In my opinion, getting “the gold medal of …” is what it should count and not if we have more or less money for an award. So, we can have more than one awards depending on what software was used by the student(s). It is up to us to decide. All these Foundations are great and the students will be honored to be awarded by them for their excellent work.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Wishes<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Nikos<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Dr. Nikos Lambrinos<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Associate Professor<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Dept. of Primary Education<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Aristotle University of Thessaloniki, Thessaloniki<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Greece, GR-54124<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Tel. +30 2310 991201<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Email: labrinos@eled.auth.gr<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Web pages: </span><u><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>http://labrinos.webpages.auth.gr/digital_geography/</span></u><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><u><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>http://www.digital-earth.edu.gr/<o:p></o:p></span></u></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>----------------------------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> ica-osgeo-labs-bounces@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:ica-osgeo-labs-bounces@lists.osgeo.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Venkatesh Raghavan<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, October 01, 2015 12:03 PM<br><b>To:</b> ICA OSGeo Labs list<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Ica-osgeo-labs] "Geo4All - MapStory Challenge" - FOSS4G 2016 Student Competitions<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Dear All,<br><br>In a conference hosted by and also the cash award being <br>provided by the OSGeo Foundation, I see no wrong in <br>considering innovative use and/or value addition to the<br>OSGeo software stack as one of the criteria for final <br>selection for student awards. <br><br>The other criteria (in case of software<br>development related presentation) would be that<br>the presented software is made available under an<br>appropriate Open Source License (after all the award is<br>being made at a FOSS4G conference). I think that is what Jeff <br>and Maxi are trying to say too.<br><br>"OSGeo Best Oral Presentation Student Award" and <br>"OSGeo Best Oral Poster Student Award" at FOSS4G-2015<br>were selected based on shortlisting of student presentations<br>based on evaluation by Academic session chairs. The final <br>selection was made by the Awards Committee (comprising <br>most of the session chairs (some who had their return flights <br>earlier could not be at the meeting) and Geo4All advisory<br>board members who were present at the conference. One<br>of the criteria applied in the final selection was as stated<br>in the previous paragraph "innovative use and/or value addition<br>to OSGeo software stack".<br><br>The "FOSS4G Seoul Best Oral Presentation Student Award" and<br>"FOSS4G Seoul Best Poster Presentation Award" with cash award<br>provided by the Seoul LoC, also followed the same procedure/criteria.<br>One of the presentation was more related to Open Hardware coupled <br>with a widely used Open Source package not under the OSGeo umbrella<br> (as yet).<br><br>If there is to be a "MapStory Challenge" in future, it can be considered<br>as a separate award sponsored by folks connected to MapStory Foundation, <br>just like GeoCat b.v. sponsored "FOSS4G Developer Award" that was presented at<br>FOSS4G-2015. GeoCat also formulated it's own selection procedure<br>in consultation with the Seoul LoC.<br> <br>Best<br><br>Venka<br><br>On 10/1/2015 5:01 PM, Massimiliano Cannata wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre>Dear all<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>I agree with Jeff principles.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>During the osgwo event we should shomehow foster osgeo. Everywhere.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>I do not want to enter into porocedural details or rules of prize<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>assignment.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>I just would like to see clearly incetivayed the use of osgeo software.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Then also someone who make amzing things mixing proprietary and open source<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>non-osgeo could win the award.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>But to reinforce osgeo brand and to help osgeo projects i would like this<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>principle clearly promoted.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Then i undrstand geo4all is not osgeo and it can do whatever it believes is<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>better and osgeo do not have any autoritative role to drive this.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Maxi<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Il 01/Ott/2015 06:57, "Suchith Anand" <a href="mailto:Suchith.Anand@nottingham.ac.uk"><Suchith.Anand@nottingham.ac.uk></a> ha<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>scritto:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre>Dimitris , Very good points and i hope Jeff will come with more<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>clarifications/answers to these queries.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Best wishes,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Suchith<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>From: <a href="mailto:ica-osgeo-labs-bounces@lists.osgeo.org">ica-osgeo-labs-bounces@lists.osgeo.org</a> [<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="mailto:ica-osgeo-labs-bounces@lists.osgeo.org">ica-osgeo-labs-bounces@lists.osgeo.org</a>] on behalf of Dimitris Kotzinos [<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="mailto:kotzino@gmail.com">kotzino@gmail.com</a>]<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2015 12:34 AM<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>To: <a href="mailto:ica-osgeo-labs@lists.osgeo.org">ica-osgeo-labs@lists.osgeo.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Subject: Re: [Ica-osgeo-labs] "Geo4All - MapStory Challenge" - FOSS4G<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>2016 Student Competitions<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Hi Jeff, all<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>before taking a final position on your - admittedly - strong note on the<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Geo4All awards, I would like to ask some clarifications and offer some<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>comments hoping that this will facilitate the discussion and avoid<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>making it a conflict. Let me say first that I understand the reasoning<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>saying that an award funded by OSGEO, in the main OSGEO event, should<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>focus on OSGEO software.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>So some requests for clarifications first:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>- how do you see the award selection working: students are allowed to<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>submit when they are using at a 100% OSGEO projects? What happens when<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>for a specific student task an OSGEO project is not available? What<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>happens when the student add his/hers own source code to do something<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>(which could be in the form of a tool or an external library)? Do we<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>talk about full projects or also about non-OSGEO libraries used in<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>student projects?<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Personally I would understand more a position that says that the<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>projects should use substantially (by this I mean playing a crucial role<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>in the project) at least one OSGEO project.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>- I was confused by your answer to Gert-Jan: if the LOC has full<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>authority, then the instructions apply only to the Geo4All community?<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>- do you see this as a decision to be made by the OSGEO President or the<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Board or by the Geo4All community, which in principle includes also<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>people not related to OSGEO (since it is a joint OSGEO/ISPRS/ICA<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>initiative?<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>- why do you differentiate between the global and the regional FOSS4G?<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Since now at the European and the NA FOSS4G are becoming equally big<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>with the international one (with their own limitations of course) I<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>cannot understand why you differentiate. At least from a Geo4All<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>perspective (but also from my perspective for OSGEO's future) I cannot<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>see the difference.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Some comments, if anyone is interested: from my academic (and thus maybe<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>limited or biased) perspective this is not a good way to advance. I<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>always try to get students to use the best tool they have for the job,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>with one of the most important factors of choosing the best to be its<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>openness both in terms of software license but also (if relevant) in<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>protocols/standards and data used. So for me it would be at least weird<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>to tell them (important to note that we are teaching these students)<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>that excellence and quality and openness come after the OSGEO brand.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Also I think that most (I would even go as far as to say that all) of<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>our projects are of top quality and if a student is looking for a tool<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>to implement a project idea then they will be his/hers first choice.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Imposing a purity restriction actually gives a message that we are not<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>so confident on that.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Please take this as an effort to discuss this, as I said I understand<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>also the reasoning behind Jeff's message. I am not yet convinced that<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>these reasons supersede other principles and also provide more benefits<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>than the issues they raise.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>My 2c and thanks for listening,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Best regards,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Dimitris<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>ica-osgeo-labs mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="mailto:ica-osgeo-labs@lists.osgeo.org">ica-osgeo-labs@lists.osgeo.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://lists.osgeo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ica-osgeo-labs">http://lists.osgeo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ica-osgeo-labs</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>and may contain confidential information. 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