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On 08/12/10 21:14, Peter Baumann wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:4CFF5A7C.700@jacobs-university.de" type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
Cameron-<br>
<br>
you have suggested to remove all references to the commercial
support
of rasdaman from the rasdaman.org site. <br>
How does this compare to PostGIS?<br>
<br>
- On the main page PostGIS states ". <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:info@refractions.net">Ask us</a> about <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.refractions.net/products/postgis/">consulting
services</a>
and implementing new features."<br>
- On <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.postgis.org/support/">http://www.postgis.org/support/</a>
2 companies are listed as
commercial support providers.<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
I think Pieter mentioned drawing a line between commercial and open
source projects.<br>
I think that you will find it commonly accepted that commercial
support for an Open Source project is seen as positive thing, and
counts toward the maturity of the project.<br>
As such, we specifically list a link to where users can find
commercial support from marketing pages on the OSGeo-Live
documentation. <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://live.osgeo.org">http://live.osgeo.org</a><br>
<br>
However there is a subtle difference between support and control.<br>
In the postgis example, a number of companies offer commercial
support, and generally they offer to enhance the product and return
the enhancements back into the Open Source codebase. People welcome
this support.<br>
<br>
Less favourable to the Open Source community is a company who writes
proprietary extensions which are not shared.<br>
<br>
On 08/12/10 21:15, Peter Baumann wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:4CFF5ACE.5060201@jacobs-university.de"
type="cite">Cameron, <br>
<br>
yet another one: PostGIS is released under GPL
(<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.opensource.org/licenses/gpl-2.0.php">http://www.opensource.org/licenses/gpl-2.0.php</a>), just as rasdaman
is. Does OSGeo see any issue with GPL? <br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Many of the OSGeo projects are GPL. This is not a problem. I don't
see there being a problem with you dual licencing the software
either, so long as full functionality is provided in the GPL
version. (People may wish to pay to have the software incorporated
into a proprietary product, which requires a less restrictive
license).<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:4CFF5ACE.5060201@jacobs-university.de"
type="cite"> <br>
cheers, <br>
Peter
</blockquote>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:4CFF5A7C.700@jacobs-university.de" type="cite">
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 12/06/2010 10:14 PM, Cameron Shorter wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:4CFD524C.103@gmail.com" type="cite">Thank
you
Pieter, <br>
I think your comments are very valuable, especially as the path
you
followed is similar to what Peter is proposing. (Ie a business
building
an Open Source project from scratch, rather than an volunteers
who
convert a hobby project into a robust business model). <br>
<br>
Peter, if Pieter is willing, I expect you would do well to pick
his
brain for ideas on building your our marketing strategy and
business
model. (Geomajas have done a great job with their marketing). <br>
<br>
On 6/12/2010 6:31 PM, Pieter De Graef wrote: <br>
<blockquote type="cite">I believe your situation resembles mine
a bit
(2 years ago). When Geosparc was founded to support the Open
Source
project Geomajas, there where people from only 2 companies
behind the
project. We too had it quite difficult in the beginning to
attract
people. <br>
<br>
I believe what you need to do is make the intentions of your
company as
clear as possible, and make sure the Open Source project is a
stand-alone project. <br>
On the Geomajas website, you will have a hard time looking for
the
Geosparc name. We made sure that the Geomajas website was 100%
community based, and even though in the beginning there hardly
was any
community, now there is. <br>
It could be me, but when I see services etc on the main page,
it does
not give me the impression of being a stand-alone project.
Although
this is just an impression, don't forget perception is king.
Of course
I'm known to be mistaken every now and then. <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Op 4/12/2010 4:30, Cameron Shorter schreef: <br>
<blockquote type="cite">Peter, <br>
The (possibly incorrect) understanding I have is that you,
being one
person, have been the central driver behind rasdaman,
sometimes under
the banner of the university and sometimes under your
company. <br>
<br>
However, my key concern from OSGeo's point of view is that
the current
link with a proprietary license will hinder growth of a
robust
community. <br>
Other OSGeo Incubation members may suggest otherwise. <br>
<br>
On 04/12/10 13:51, Baumann, Peter wrote: <br>
<blockquote type="cite">Cameron, <br>
<br>
thanks for all the effort and serious considerations put
into your
looking at rasdaman. I am very grateful about our
discussion - among
others, it has shown me that the description provided on
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="http://www.rasdaman.org">www.rasdaman.org</a>
needs refinement and clarification. I have attempted
to go into that immediately with the "feature matrix" as a
start, but
other places will have to undergo a check as well. <br>
<br>
About the licensing, let me correct some false impression.
The
open-source rasdaman code is _not_ maintained by a
company, but by a
university. So the conclusion that further development of
rasdaman
would depend on one company is wrong in two respects: <br>
- it is not one, but two entities supporting rasdaman <br>
- it is not a company which is the main promoter of open
source
rasdaman, but a university <br>
<br>
Hope that helps to clarify situation a bit. I feel it very
fruitful
that now we have come to a discussion, hope we can
continue this
fruitful exchange. <br>
<br>
Regards, <br>
Peter <br>
<br>
________________________________________ <br>
From: Cameron Shorter [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:cameron.shorter@gmail.com">cameron.shorter@gmail.com</a>]
<br>
Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2010 12:40 AM <br>
To: Baumann, Peter; Bruce Bannerman; OSGeo-incubator <br>
Subject: Is rasdaman suitable/ready for OSGeo incubation?
<br>
<br>
I had the pleasure this week of meeting Peter Baumann, the
primary <br>
author behind rasdaman [1], a dual licensed raster
processing <br>
application. Along with Bruce Bannerman, we discussed
rasdaman's <br>
application for OSGeo application (initiated 18 months
ago). <br>
<br>
Understandably, Peter noted some frustration by the lack
of progress <br>
moving toward OSGeo Incubation. <br>
<br>
Since talking to Peter, I've looked at rasdaman further,
and think that <br>
rasdaman has some great functionality, but I'm concerned
that the <br>
current dual license will hamper uptake from the open
source community. <br>
<br>
Radaman is provided via an open source community edition,
and then has <br>
extensions which are in a proprietary enterprise edition.
[2] My
concern <br>
is the dual license will substantially reduce the number
of developers <br>
prepared to grow the rasdaman developer community, as
there will be a <br>
feeling that the prime developer will only maintain and
advance the <br>
enterprise version. <br>
<br>
One of the key goals for incubation is to build a robust
developer <br>
community, with contributors from multiple organisations,
and to have <br>
the project grow sustainably. As it stands, I think that
rasdaman's <br>
licence model will make the project dependent upon the
organisation <br>
offering the enterprise software, which is counter to some
of OSGeo <br>
principles. <br>
<br>
Peter, <br>
I understand the challenge of finding a suitable business
model and <br>
deciding whether to go down the proprietary or open source
route. Yes, <br>
with Open Source you do get significant marketing reach
and having <br>
others share development costs. Alternatively, with
proprietary, you
can <br>
charge for software. If you wish to try to achieve both,
then you will <br>
likely end up having to write most/all software yourself,
which doesn't <br>
align with OSGeo goals of building a robust developer
community. <br>
This may be a reason why people on the incubation
committee have not <br>
pushed rasdaman forward further. <br>
If you wish to continue with OSGeo incubation, I would
suggest <br>
considering adjusting your licence model. <br>
<br>
<br>
[1] <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://rasdaman.eecs.jacobs-university.de/trac/rasdaman">http://rasdaman.eecs.jacobs-university.de/trac/rasdaman</a>
<br>
[2]
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://rasdaman.eecs.jacobs-university.de/trac/rasdaman/wiki/Features">http://rasdaman.eecs.jacobs-university.de/trac/rasdaman/wiki/Features</a>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Cameron Shorter <br>
Geospatial Director <br>
Tel: +61 (0)2 8570 5050 <br>
Mob: +61 (0)419 142 254 <br>
<br>
Think Globally, Fix Locally <br>
Geospatial Solutions enhanced with Open Standards and Open
Source <br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.lisasoft.com">http://www.lisasoft.com</a>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="80">--
Dr. Peter Baumann
- Professor of Computer Science, Jacobs University Bremen
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.faculty.jacobs-university.de/pbaumann">www.faculty.jacobs-university.de/pbaumann</a>
mail: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:p.baumann@jacobs-university.de">p.baumann@jacobs-university.de</a>
tel: +49-421-200-3178, fax: +49-421-200-493178
- Executive Director, rasdaman GmbH Bremen (HRB 147737)
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.rasdaman.com">www.rasdaman.com</a>, mail: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:baumann@rasdaman.com">baumann@rasdaman.com</a>
tel: 0800-rasdaman, fax: 0800-rasdafax, mobile: +49-173-5837882
"Si forte in alienas manus oberraverit hec peregrina epistola incertis ventis dimissa, sed Deo commendata, precamur ut ei reddatur cui soli destinata, nec preripiat quisquam non sibi parata." (mail disclaimer, AD 1083)
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Cameron Shorter
Geospatial Director
Tel: +61 (0)2 8570 5050
Mob: +61 (0)419 142 254
Think Globally, Fix Locally
Geospatial Solutions enhanced with Open Standards and Open Source
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.lisasoft.com">http://www.lisasoft.com</a>
</pre>
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