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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Bruce-<br>
<br>
I was hoping and believing that we just had a misunderstanding, as
it turns out now.<br>
<br>
Of course I (and everybody engaged in rasdaman I know of) share
the firm opinion that all contributions are to be considered and
are welcome. Otherwise indeed we would shoot in our own legs.<br>
<br>
Glad that we could sort it out. Your opinion is very much
respected, as your mentoring has brought the project forward
significantly, and has helped a lot to stabilize and mature
processes.<br>
<br>
-Peter<br>
<br>
<br>
On 03/08/2013 07:04 AM, Bruce Bannerman wrote:<br>
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<div>
<div>Peter,<br>
<br>
</div>
I just picked up this comment in re-reading your email
today:<br>
<br>
"Actually, in the concrete case at hand the question
was different even from scenario #4, aka: Should OSGeo
actively encourage contributors in dual-license
projects to clone commercial functionality?"<br>
<br>
</div>
In re-reading your initial response, I noted a similar
sentiment. Sorry, this slipped by me before now.<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
This was not the intent of my initial email to the
Rasdaman list.<br>
<br>
</div>
My intent was to ensure that we have an open development
process that is not constrained by artificial constraints.<br>
<br>
</div>
I would not like to see Rasdaman become a project where
developers do not feel free to contribute functionality for
fear of offending someone or some entity.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>If we go down that path IMHO, Rasdaman will not have a
viable future as an open source project.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
Bruce<br>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
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</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 10:37 AM, Peter
Baumann <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:p.baumann@jacobs-university.de"
target="_blank">p.baumann@jacobs-university.de</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div>Hi all,<br>
<br>
allow me to chime in. First, thanks to Bruce for
abstracting from the case by fleshing out these
variations, and to all for your thoughts!<br>
<br>
I'm pretty much in line that #4 is not very desirable,
although I'm not sure OSGeo should influence - I
understand OSGeo more as a project quality check, but
not as project hypervisor. Usually community is quite
aware and the situation probably would self-regulate. <br>
<br>
Actually, in the concrete case at hand the question was
different even from scenario #4, aka: Should OSGeo
actively encourage contributors in dual-license projects
to clone commercial functionality? On a side note, in
the case on hand the commercial player is a key
contributor to the open-source version, as the commit
logs convey; this may or may not be relevant.<br>
<br>
Of course this situation was not planned, it just
surfaced the potential issue by coincidence.
Consequently, I see no particular severity in it, just a
useful discussion. My personal preference? Coexistence.<br>
<br>
-Peter
<div>
<div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 03/07/2013 11:52 PM, Jody Garnett wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div> OSGeo does not tend to have policies with
respect to our projects - the organisation is
driven by its goals and does its best be "hands
off". </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The only exception to this is during incubation
(when we have a mentor available to answer
questions) and some specific checks to perform
(check the IP, check that the license is open,
check that the development process is open to
outsiders).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In this respect we are trying to do all the
research that an "contributor" would require
before participating in a project … and ensure
each OSGeo project is in position to handle new
contributors. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We have never been involved in the business
model supporting the project, and any related
commercial considerations. If the project does not
have a useful model for commercial involvement I
would expect it to suffer, if it does not have a
useful model for community engagement (say the
original JUMP) I would expect it to fail (or be
forked).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>During incubation we ask that the community be
handled with "open source" and that contributors
be handled with "open development". Beyond that
(rather low) bar the specifics of how a project
intends to stay viable and manage its commercial
relationships is outside of our scope. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I had hoped that the OSGeo Foundation could be
part of the solution (a reason GeoTools joined the
foundation was to pursue funding for thankless
tasks such as documentation and marketing). The
recent board decisions take this goal off the
table.</div>
<div>-- </div>
<div>
<div>Jody Garnett<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<p style="color:#a0a0a8">On Thursday, 7 March 2013
at 4:54 PM, Bruce Bannerman wrote:</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
style="border-left-style:solid;border-width:1px;margin-left:0px;padding-left:10px">
<span>
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">This is a generic question
that may help us develop a consistent
policy to be applied towards projects that
we are currently working with and those
that we may potentially work with in the
future.<br>
<div><br>
<br>
I would appreciate some guidance on what
we consider acceptable commercial
involvement within an OSGeo project.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>To start this discussion off, I will
propose a set of scenarios to help start
and guide the conversation.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>These are but four scenarios. There
are of course a continuum of variations
to these.<br>
<br>
<br>
*****<br>
</div>
<div>Does OSGeo provide clear guidance as
to what is acceptable commercial
involvement within an OSGeo project?<br>
</div>
<div>*****<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>Where do we draw the line on what is
considered acceptable involvement?<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>Bruce<br>
</div>
<div><br>
<br>
=================</div>
<div>Scenario 1<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>Organisation X is interested in
furthering the development of project A.
The involvement is:<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>* X allows staff to work on project A<br>
</div>
<div>* staff contribute work to project<br>
</div>
<div>* staff are assigned commit access<br>
</div>
<div>* staff work within project processes
and Project Steering Committee (PSC) to
<br>
ensure that contributed work is
assigned a priority release date<br>
</div>
<div>* staff integrate work with rest of
project code, provide automated tests
etc<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
==================<br>
</div>
<div>Scenario 2<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>Organisation Y offers commercial
services based on project B.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>* Y contracts staff to develop
functionality on behalf of a client G<br>
</div>
<div>* contract requires G to contribute
software back to project B<br>
* Y staff integrate work with rest of
project code, provide automated tests
etc<br>
</div>
<div>* Y has both commit rights and staff
on PSC and ensure that work is <br>
prioritised for an early release.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
==================<br>
</div>
<div>Scenario 3<br>
<br>
<div>Same organisation Y offers
commercial services based on same
project B.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>* Y contracts staff to develop
functionality on behalf of a client H<br>
</div>
* contract does not allow Y to
contribute software back to project B<br>
* Y staff delivers software to client H
as a standalone branch of B<br>
</div>
<div>* Y will only integrate above work to
project B if paid a fee.<br>
<br>
<br>
==================<br>
</div>
<div>Scenario 4<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>Organisation Z releases their
previously proprietary software as an
Open Source project under a GPL Licence.
This becomes Project C.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>* Z also releases the software under
dual licensing, with a commercial <br>
closed source version containing more
advanced functionality than <br>
the open source version<br>
</div>
<div>* Project C attracts a number of
developers<br>
</div>
<div>* Z retains control of PSC and
discourages developers from adding the <br>
functionality found in the closed
source version to the open source
version<br>
</div>
<div>* if a developer does submit such
functionality, it is ranked by the PSC <br>
as low priority and is never released
within the open source version.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>==================<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
<pre cols="80">--
Dr. Peter Baumann
- Professor of Computer Science, Jacobs University Bremen
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.faculty.jacobs-university.de/pbaumann" target="_blank">www.faculty.jacobs-university.de/pbaumann</a>
mail: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:p.baumann@jacobs-university.de" target="_blank">p.baumann@jacobs-university.de</a>
tel: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B49-421-200-3178" value="+494212003178" target="_blank">+49-421-200-3178</a>, fax: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B49-421-200-493178" value="+49421200493178" target="_blank">+49-421-200-493178</a>
- Executive Director, rasdaman GmbH Bremen (HRB 26793)
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.rasdaman.com" target="_blank">www.rasdaman.com</a>, mail: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:baumann@rasdaman.com" target="_blank">baumann@rasdaman.com</a>
tel: 0800-rasdaman, fax: 0800-rasdafax, mobile: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B49-173-5837882" value="+491735837882" target="_blank">+49-173-5837882</a>
"Si forte in alienas manus oberraverit hec peregrina epistola incertis ventis dimissa, sed Deo commendata, precamur ut ei reddatur cui soli destinata, nec preripiat quisquam non sibi parata." (mail disclaimer, AD 1083)
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="80">--
Dr. Peter Baumann
- Professor of Computer Science, Jacobs University Bremen
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.faculty.jacobs-university.de/pbaumann">www.faculty.jacobs-university.de/pbaumann</a>
mail: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:p.baumann@jacobs-university.de">p.baumann@jacobs-university.de</a>
tel: +49-421-200-3178, fax: +49-421-200-493178
- Executive Director, rasdaman GmbH Bremen (HRB 26793)
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.rasdaman.com">www.rasdaman.com</a>, mail: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:baumann@rasdaman.com">baumann@rasdaman.com</a>
tel: 0800-rasdaman, fax: 0800-rasdafax, mobile: +49-173-5837882
"Si forte in alienas manus oberraverit hec peregrina epistola incertis ventis dimissa, sed Deo commendata, precamur ut ei reddatur cui soli destinata, nec preripiat quisquam non sibi parata." (mail disclaimer, AD 1083)
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